What if you could reshape the way the world views women athletes? Join us as we dive into an inspiring conversation with Jamie Mittelman, founder and host of Flamebearers. Jamie transitioned from managing multi-million dollar media portfolios to revolutionizing media coverage for female Olympians and Paralympians. Together, we explore the significant challenges female athletes face, from menstruation and motherhood to the glaring gap in media representation. Jamie's Harvard-inspired venture, Flamebearers, aims to bridge this gap by showcasing diverse and empowering stories that inspire future generations of women in sports.
🌟 Highlights of the Episode:
✨ Empowering Women in Sports:
Jamie Mittelman's journey from media mogul to advocate for female athletes.
The mission of Flamebearers to elevate stories of Olympians and Paralympians.
📊 Challenging Perceptions:
Insights from Caroline Fitzgerald’s podcast, GOALS, and its compelling statistics.
Debunking myths and showcasing women's sports as viable business opportunities.
👩💼 Women in Leadership:
The transformative impact of diverse leadership on business success.
The importance of women holding leadership roles in the sports industry.
🏅 Women to Watch in the Paris Olympics and Paralympics:
🏊♀️ Alejandra Aybar: Changing how physically disabled athletics are perceived in the Dominican Republic
🏄♀️ Sunny Choi: Pioneering in the new Olympic sport of Breaking
💪 Celebrating New and Returning Athletes:
🤸♀️ Simone Biles: A testament to resilience and excellence.
🏃♀️ Sha'Carri Richardson: Overcoming challenges and making a comeback.
🏅 Ritah Asiimwe: Paralympian breaking stereotypes and inspiring millions.
As we gear up for the Paris Olympics, this episode is a powerful reminder of the importance of representation and recognition in women's sports. Join us in supporting Jamie Mittelman and her incredible work with athletes, reaffirming our commitment to backing their journey every step of the way.
Tune in now and be part of the movement to empower women athletes and elevate their stories on a global stage! 🌍
What if you could reshape the way the world views women athletes? Join us as we dive into an inspiring conversation with Jamie Mittelman, founder and host of Flamebearers. Jamie transitioned from managing multi-million dollar media portfolios to revolutionizing media coverage for female Olympians and Paralympians. Together, we explore the significant challenges female athletes face, from menstruation and motherhood to the glaring gap in media representation. Jamie's Harvard-inspired venture, Flamebearers, aims to bridge this gap by showcasing diverse and empowering stories that inspire future generations of women in sports.
🌟 Highlights of the Episode:
✨ Empowering Women in Sports:
Jamie Mittelman's journey from media mogul to advocate for female athletes.
The mission of Flamebearers to elevate stories of Olympians and Paralympians.
📊 Challenging Perceptions:
Insights from Caroline Fitzgerald’s podcast, GOALS, and its compelling statistics.
Debunking myths and showcasing women's sports as viable business opportunities.
👩💼 Women in Leadership:
The transformative impact of diverse leadership on business success.
The importance of women holding leadership roles in the sports industry.
🏅 Women to Watch in the Paris Olympics and Paralympics:
🏊♀️ Alejandra Aybar: Changing how physically disabled athletics are perceived in the Dominican Republic
🏄♀️ Sunny Choi: Pioneering in the new Olympic sport of Breaking
💪 Celebrating New and Returning Athletes:
🤸♀️ Simone Biles: A testament to resilience and excellence.
🏃♀️ Sha'Carri Richardson: Overcoming challenges and making a comeback.
🏅 Ritah Asiimwe: Paralympian breaking stereotypes and inspiring millions.
As we gear up for the Paris Olympics, this episode is a powerful reminder of the importance of representation and recognition in women's sports. Join us in supporting Jamie Mittelman and her incredible work with athletes, reaffirming our commitment to backing their journey every step of the way.
Tune in now and be part of the movement to empower women athletes and elevate their stories on a global stage! 🌍
If you'd like to connect, reach out to me at audra@womeninthearena.net
***One last thing...I have an interview wish list because a girl's gotta dream
Viola Davis
Dolly Parton
Ina Garten
Joan Jett
Maybe one of you can help me out!
Thank you all for supporting this show and all Women in the Arena!
Audra :
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me again this week. Before we get started, I wanted to call something out Of all the episodes that I have done thus far. Of all of them, the one that is the most visual of women in the arena is this one. So hang on tight. In the arena is this one. So hang on tight.
Audra :
My guest this week is Jamie Middleman, and she is the founder and host of Flamebearers, an award-winning podcast and the world's first storytelling platform specifically for women Olympians and para-Olympians. Her background is in media, so she has managed multi-million dollar media portfolios like Yahoo, the Huffington Post, aol and Verizon. She has also won multiple international awards, including being a Webby finalist, debut awards for best in show signal, awards in diversity, equity and inclusion, as well as public service and activism, tele awards and communicator awards. She's also extremely brilliant. She earned her master's in public administration at Harvard, which is also where she founded Flamebearers, and she received her MBA from Dartmouth. It is my pleasure and my honor to introduce to you Jamie. Jamie, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
Jamie :
Thank you so much for having me Listening back at some of your previous episodes. It's such an honor to be in this incredible company and I love what you're doing.
Audra :
As I told you before we came on air, I'm so excited to do this. I've been thrilled and super excited that you said yes to do this, especially as we come into the 2024 Paris Summer Olympics, highlighting female athletes, which is now more important than ever, and we're going to talk all about that. But before I get ahead of myself, I want to talk to you about flamebearers and where you got the inspiration to found this movement and this idea of flamebearers while simultaneously getting your MBA at Harvard. You ambitious woman, you.
Jamie :
Sure, growing up, I was an athlete myself definitely not to the caliber or to the level of the woman that I'm working with, but sport was one of my greatest teachers. It's where I had some of my highest highs, some of my greatest sources of joy. Also some of my cringiest moments, my most embarrassing moments, things where I look back and I've learned pivotal lessons in my life and I realized that sports is also a universal language. But when you take a look at the general sports media landscape, there's a massive opportunity.
Jamie :
Historically, 85% of all sports coverage has gone to men, so that means that less than 15% of all sports coverage has gone to women. So I like to call awareness to the fact that traditional sports coverage is very much a misnomer. It's male sports coverage if 85% is going to a specific group. So, number one I was deeply passionate about sports. Number two, there was this massive need in the market where no one was telling these stories. And then number three is we were in the middle of a global pandemic when people were craving connection. People were looking to form bonds with people, and I think that sport is something that brings us together.
Audra :
Sport is something that brings us together. Sports, as you said, is universal, because you don't have to necessarily speak the same language to be able to play the same sport with other teammates. I'll use soccer as an example. My son plays soccer and he played with kids all over the world and they didn't all speak the same language, but they all knew how to play the game, so it's really important to do that. The fact that you focused on girls and women is really important, and I don't have the facts right in front of me, but there are more girls in sports now than there have ever been ever. But the statistics are also that they get to a certain age and they drop out. They drop out, and that is heartbreaking, and that's one of the things we're going to talk about as to why representation matters, why we need to elevate these stories, why it's important for other girls to see that it's possible that you can reach the highest levels.
Audra :
I'm going to use an example of an Olympian of just. I'm just so impressed with this woman, and she was one of the best in the world at the time Abby Wambach. Ah, yeah, there's a. There's a theme, because soccer at one point ruled our household. Ok, obviously Abby Wambach was one of the best, if not the best, soccer players in the world. Male, female period did not matter. She was the best and she got the least amount of coverage. She was a top scorer Absolutely Least amount of coverage because she was female, which is horrific. It is horrific and it's just.
Audra :
We need to change that. We need to change that we have these women athletes that are training tirelessly and there is a degree as I had spoken before we came on air there's a degree of difficulty that women face training that is exclusive to women and that men don't have to deal with. These are women that have to deal with menstruating, which is difficult even when you're not training. These are women that a lot of them are mothers, so they're trying to balance motherhood and their athletic careers. There is a degree of expectation that female athletes have that male athletes do not, and they get less recognition for it. So tell me about your work, how you're willing to change all of this.
Jamie :
I'm riled up now.
Audra :
I'm pumped up and fired up too, because I've seen these amazing athletes and I'm like why don't we know more about them? Why can't we see more like them? Because I want to help encourage the next generation and I want to get these women paid Absolutely.
Jamie :
So our entire body of work is based off of the premise that of all races, religions, abilities to show that you can be an elite athlete and look and sound like that. That is so truly important to us. I mentioned the quantity problem in terms of 15%. There's also a massive quality problem. If you look at women's sports media right now, of that 15%, which is a pathetically measly number to begin with, it pretty much all goes to white women from the global north who do not have physical disabilities, who play certain sports, particularly basketball or women's soccer, and who identify in certain ways, are heteronormative and practice majority religion.
Jamie :
So we're trying to be a part of broadening the slice of the pie of whose stories are getting covered. Half the athletes we work with are Paralympians. Those are athletes with physical disabilities. Half of the athletes we work with are from the global South and we actively go out of our way to elevate women who have historically been marginalized and overlooked and who are trailblazing, who are breaking barriers and being the first woman from their country to actually go to the Olympics or the Paralympics, because those are the women who are going home and proving to hundreds thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of little girls that they can do it too. I had the opportunity to work with Mia LaTonna Clark, who is the first Malagasy woman that's, a woman from Madagascar to ski in the Olympics, and she said women in Madagascar, people in Madagascar, have no idea what alpine skiing is and she is determined to stay in it because she wants people to know that black people can ski. And not only can they ski, they can do it really well.
Audra :
First of all, that just blows my mind that there is a skier, an alpine skier, from Madagascar. Absolutely, she get involved in skiing. How was she even introduced to skiing, so she?
Jamie :
was. She was actually adopted and raised within Europe, so she she is a dual citizen. So that was her introduction and she had the opportunity to ski for two different national teams and she chose Madagascar scar. It's interesting.
Jamie :
I've heard this time and time again from a number of athletes who have the opportunity to participate and compete on behalf of multiple countries, and oftentimes they choose the country that they feel like needs the representation and it's not an easy way out. It's not their ticket to get to the Olympics or the Paralympics. That's a criticism that those athletes frequently face. It's because they want to be a part of changing the culture and the narrative in that country that has historically said girl people in our community don't do X. For example, I'm currently in the process of interviewing Marine Fatoumata Kamara. She is hoping to be the first woman from Mali to be an Olympic boxer. She told me that she had the opportunity to compete on behalf of France, where she currently lives. She is also a part of changing the culture, changing the community, showing girls and boys that boxing can look like her.
Audra :
You're in media and there is this, or your background is media, your education is in media. Yeah, there is this idea women can't sell that. Women's sports don period will make money and I'll use. I will use a sports example and an entertainment example. Sports example Women's soccer always draws a crowd, always, always, usually a sold out crowd, always. As a matter of fact, women's soccer is usually a bigger crowd than men's soccer, always. People know the names of the female soccer athletes more than they do the men, absolutely.
Jamie :
They can rattle off a bunch of players on the US team. Very few can rattle off a couple of men on the team Exactly.
Audra :
And let's use an example from entertainment, and I'll borrow it from this past summer, barbie Yep, barbie made I don't know a trillion dollars. That was produced by a woman, directed by a woman, written by a woman, made phenomenal money. So those two arguments, or those two examples alone, absolutely negate that argument. So why?
Jamie :
can't we change? Use those two things as leverage and change the conversation on purpose and more often in women's sports, against us. Part of what we are doing is we're trying to change that narrative. We are trying to change that perception. I think it's largely a perception issue but, frankly, just an outdated misunderstanding that women's sports are not a charity case. They're a business. Caroline Fitzgerald does an outstanding job of this. She has a podcast, gold, brought to you by Ally, which talks about the business case of women's sports and will actually arm you with statistics. So if you're listening to this and you are frustrated and annoyed at people who are making that argument to you, listen to her podcast and she will arm you with statistics so you can counter all of those naysayers.
Jamie :
So I think there's a couple of different things. We have a longstanding culture of no-transcript narratives that they're going to push. They're going to be things that likely historically that they can relate to. We are now seeing that change. We are seeing women coming into positions of power and elevating actively, choosing to elevate women and girls who look and sound like them and, frankly, women and girls who don't sound like them and, frankly, women and girls who don't sound like them because they're not in the arena. They're the people outside of the gates and they're saying they need to be at the table too, and I think that's more what needs to happen.
Jamie :
So every time someone gives me those arguments, I say hey, what do you think about March Madness? Do you know about the viewership numbers? Did you know that the women's game actually had higher viewership rates than the men's game? Interesting, okay, those are hard statistics that you can't ignore and I think it takes time. It's so frustrating.
Jamie :
Professor David Berry of Southern Utah University has done a lot of research specifically on how you build a fan base and I would love to say you wake up the next day and the NWSL is through the roof and women's soccer is killing it. But the point is that I'm a Red Sox fan because I grew up going to Red Sox games, because my parents took me to Red Sox games. What we're seeing right now is we're seeing baby boomers take their kids and their grandkids to games and therefore raising them on a culture where people support women's sports. My hope is that when my generation and the generations below us who grew up supporting women's sports become the decision makers, we have the capital, the money in our wallets. We really lead with that and we say you know, I grew up going to NWSL games. My children are going to be NWSL fans.
Audra :
I mean, and let's face it, businesses that have a female forward leadership make money. They do better. They do much better. They are very profitable.
Jamie :
Absolutely, companies with more diverse leadership teams in general outperform companies with less diverse leadership teams.
Audra :
I mean and I can use example after example after example, which I won't because it just gets us fired up in the wrong direction I want to talk more about the athletes. You were some remarkable athletes and I want to highlight some of those because we are heading into Paris. Yeah, I mean, the Summer Olympics is my personal favorite, and reason being is because of swimming. I was a swimmer. I was a swimmer athlete growing up. I started when I was a. I was a swimmer, I was a swimmer athlete growing up.
Audra :
I started when I was five as a competitive swimmer. I stopped when I was 17 for obvious reasons. I don't even have to go into it as to why I stopped at 17 because there was no other avenue for me. Right, I started as five. I ended when I was a senior in high school, because that was what you did, because you know they said well, what were you going to do? Go to the Olympics. You go to the Olympics, go to college. I went to college. I mean, that's what you do. So my summer is my personal favorite because of that. And then I get to watch the other stuff, like gymnastics which we will talk about as well, and you know and track and field, which I'm always in awe because I can't run. If you're a swimmer, you usually can't run. I can't run. But I want to talk about these athletes heading to Paris and what we can expect to see. Tell us about the athletes that you represent and allow us to get to know them a little bit better. Sure.
Jamie :
So I'll tell you about, first of all, what we're doing around the Olympics and the Paralympics, and that will segue into some of the athletes who we're working with. So we have an entire video and podcast season elevating 20 to 30 different women from around the world. We have all continents, cover, all the major sports covered Paralympians and Olympians who are competing in Paris and still seeking to qualify for Paris. There's still athletes who have their qualifications outstanding. Some of the bigger names include Caster Semenya Our co-host is a two-time Olympian, six-time national figure skating champion. She's a winter Olympian from France, so she's from the host country, which is always really exciting.
Jamie :
Alejandra Abar of the Dominican Republic she's a very big swimmer there. She was actually the first para swimmer from the Dominican Republic, first female to ever represent the Dominican Republic in the Paralympics. Sunny Choi she's the number one break dancer from the U Republic, first female to ever represent the Dominican Republic in the Paralympics. Sunny Choi she's the number one breakdancer from the US had the opportunity to meet her. Breakdancing is a new Olympic sport. If you didn't know that, I had no idea. I know it catches a lot of people off guard. Sunny has such a remarkable story because she is a Asian American and she feels that she has historically been typecast because she's a very sunny, bubbly person and she feels that breaking it goes by. Breaking it's not break dancing Didn't know that either. It hates us if I say break dancing Exactly, exactly. I grew up in the 80s. She corrected me too, so she basically said that breaking is an incredibly male dominated sport and within that you have a lot of people who portray themselves as angry, as aggressive, as frustrated. And here she is, this bubbly, happy, very optimistic, smiley person who feels like she is being pigeonholed in different ways that she doesn't like to. So I mean, I'm very excited to watch Sunny compete, a couple athletes who we are very excited, of course, to watch.
Jamie :
Simone Biles I think she is the GOAT, literally one of the greatest gymnasts of all time. She was a four-time Olympic champion in Rio. I think she is the GOAT, literally one of the greatest gymnasts of all time. She was a four-time Olympic champion in Rio. I think what she did in Tokyo in terms of prioritizing her mental health was so important and exactly what our world needed to hear. I was going crazy when people were criticizing her for that and I think that that was incredibly short-sighted and I believe in hindsight there's a lot of changed perceptions and I think that she has largely been one of the biggest athletes driving the conversations forward around mental health.
Jamie :
Someone else who I'm really excited to watch participate is Sha'Carri Richardson. She is a rising track star. She recently won the 100 meters in the World Championship and I think I'm just so excited to see her compete at the Olympic level. She missed out on the last Olympics in Tokyo because of a usage of marijuana after the passing of one of her family members, ironically. Ridiculously enough, marijuana is not a sport enhancing drug at all, so I think that's completely crazy as well. So I'm really excited for Shikari to have her moment to shine.
Audra :
I'm so excited to see her because, if anybody has ever seen her run Incredible she runs like I'm from Phoenix. She runs like she is a phoenix, like her hair just blowing in the wind behind her, and she does not. She does not bind up her hair. Her hair is wild behind her and makeup done, gorgeous nails. She is beautiful while she's doing it and she has got wind in her feet. She does, she does. I've never seen anybody that runs like her doing it, looking as good as she does. So it's exciting to watch her run and I'm excited that she's able to do it, especially since I think she was robbed from the opportunity last time, exactly Because that's ridiculous For marijuana.
Jamie :
Are you kidding me? Yeah, don't get me started. I completely agree, I am. I will be out there Pom pom blazing for Sha'Carri.
Audra :
Yeah, take extra pom poms for me. I will be cheering for her too. What other athletes? Because you mentioned not just Olympics, but Paralympics athletes Tell us some more about your Paralympic athletes that you represent, because they train just as hard, if not harder, for their sports and they are even more unseen than our Olympic athletes.
Jamie :
Yeah, it's crazy, but the last Paralympics of Tokyo was literally the first time in history when the Paralympics had shown on primetime. Nbc made a commitment to show over 1,200 hours of primetime television around the Paralympics. Before that the Paralympics had largely been marginalized to middle-of-the-night coverage, frankly, or really obscure hours during the workday when no one is going to tune in. So we talked about the statistics around 15% of media coverage going to women in sport. Now imagine getting covered. If you are a woman who also has a physical disability, your odds of coverage just absolutely tank. So we are trying to be a part of changing that culture. Half of the athletes we work with are Paralympians and we do that because we believe the Paralympics literally means parallel to, it does not mean a second class, it does not mean JV, it does not mean less than those are some of the common misconceptions. That literally means parallel to and we believe that, yes, some of these athletes are not as well known as some of the more household names. That said, we truly believe that every single athlete has a story and that their stories are just as valid and just as important to be heard. So a number of athletes that I would love to elevate.
Jamie :
I mentioned Alejandra Abar. Alejandra is going for her second Paralympics. She's the first female para swimmer to represent the Dominican Republic. She has gone out of her way to change how people view people with disabilities in the Dominican Republic. We also have someone named Rita Estimwe. Rita is the number one para badminton player in all of Africa. Rita has an incredible story because when she was younger, she was defending her grandmother and her family when thugs broke into her grandma's house. She chased them out of the house. They hacked off her right hand with a machete and essentially she woke up in a pool of blood, had to relearn how to do everything with her left hand and is currently the number one badminton player playing with her left hand, which she learned how to do everything, from washing her clothes to writing, to playing badminton. She's on her way to hopefully getting a medal in Paris.
Audra :
Wow Right, badman, she's on her way um to hopefully getting a medal in paris. Wow right, I, I, I I don't even know what to say to that that she she became just quote-unquote disabled by defending her grandmother, yeah, and then that didn't slow her down, so she's like I'll just treat, just teach myself everything with my left hand, do everything one handed, and now I'm an Olympian.
Jamie :
OK, rita's. Rita's whole mentality was this is a quote I'm the same old Rita, I don't want anyone to treat me any differently is one of the common themes that I have noticed through working with so many different Paralympians is many of them, the vast majority of them, do not view their disability as something that is pitiable, as something that is. They don't necessarily want to be sources of inspiration for other people because of the fact they have a disability, but they want to be perceived as the badass, amazing athlete that they are because of the grind, the hustle, the hard work that they put in every day. But yes, rita is the same old Rita. She has just transferred all of her skills from her right hand to her left hand and she has an incredible, indomitable spirit.
Audra :
So, with the work, that you have done to elevate these remarkable, exceptional athletes? Have you started to see that it's made an impact and made a dent in trying to change the narrative?
Jamie :
Yeah, the way I think about this is I think about it in terms of two groups. I think about it in terms of two groups. I think about it in terms of the athletes themselves and then the listeners, the communities who are not the athletes that we're representing. So, to quote Mansi, joshi Mansi is the number one. She won a world championship in para badminton. She's from India. She was time India's woman of the Year a couple years ago. She said through listening to the stories of other women, through Flamebearers, she realized how much we have in common. So she was specifically talking about Becky Sauerbrunn's episode. Becky is the captain of the US Women's National Soccer Team and her episode was all about fighting for pay equity.
Jamie :
And Mansi said I didn't realize that women on the other side of the world playing different sports Becky doesn't have a physical disability are still struggling, that they are still facing issues. And I think one of the changes that we are seeing in the athletes themselves is they are starting to form relationships and bonds and synergies and they're seeing how similar they are to athletes around the world. And I think that that really matters because we're building a community where women athletes support each other In terms of people who are not the athletes themselves. We receive feedback on about a daily basis from community members, from moms from high school girls saying thank you so much.
Jamie :
I didn't have a role model who Lister sounded like me and now I do, thank you. I had a mom reach out to me a month ago saying I listened to your podcast with my three sons because I want them to know what a strong woman looks and sounds like. Those are not quantifiable statistics that I can quantitatively say. We have impacted X people by Y metric. That said, if I touch one person, I'm happy. If I change how one person views women's sports and they truly mean it, I feel like our work is worth it.
Audra :
Well, you and I feel the same, because I have said from the moment that I started this that my aspirations were to change the world, one interview at a time. If I inspire one person listening to this and that one person does one thing to inspire something else with someone else, then this is world changing, and I'm doing it through speaking with women on the things that set their souls on fire, and you're doing it specifically with elevating athletes, exactly. And you mentioned something earlier that I was like oh, she gets it too. I've been saying this for a really long time. We are way more similar than we are different. Yeah, it does not matter where you live, what race, religion, what you identify as, what your sexual orientation is, any of that, none of that matters. We are all plagued with very similar things, we all want very similar things and we all have very similar challenges Totally, totally. If we collectively looked at each other and went wait a minute, you are not my enemy, as I've been taught, as it has been ingrained in me, as I have inherited this idea that you're my competition and you are my greatest asset, we could change this really quickly so the athletes that you represent and elevate, those young girls can see representation, the female athletes that have to fight for equal pay.
Audra :
There was the women's soccer team. They had a landmark, landmark lawsuit just a couple of years ago, just to be on par with crazy. I mean, it was insane and there was just a just a couple of weeks ago that it came out what the starting salary was for professional women basketball players versus men basketball players, and the differences are. They're not even laughable. It's disgusting, it's horrific. It's horrific. I had the opportunity. Oh sorry, go for it. As I say, I think the league differences for the first year for females I think it was 75,000 versus for male, quite ordinary. Yeah what. We play the same sport.
Jamie :
It's crazy. It's crazy. I had the opportunity to work with the very first US women's national soccer team. So the US women's national soccer team came to fruition. The first team ever was in 1985. And I had the opportunity to work with every single player on that team. This past summer Michelle Akers, who's known as the goat in women's soccer with my co-host for this season and they were paid $10 a day and they stayed in a dingy motel on their first trip and they were at the back of the airplanes and they got countless no after no after no. So, yes, we have come a long way, but we still have a lot of work to do.
Audra :
And forget about health coverage.
Jamie :
Oh, please, yeah, Don't even think about that, please, absolutely not. And we see the same problem coming from sponsors frankly dropping women when they have babies, which is absolutely wild. You mentioned earlier that it is vastly different to be a woman athlete than it is to be a male athlete at an undergrad course at Harvard and two-time Paralympian Femita Ayanbeku joined us. She was kind of my guest in the classroom. She had a baby three months ago. She is currently training for Paris for the Paralympics, and she's going to be there. That's crazy. She's three months postpartum and she's currently working out for the Paralympics and you know I put money on the fact that she's been a podium.
Audra :
Oh, has anybody actually seen a woman postpartum? I mean, has anybody actually ever watched a woman postpartum? Especially if it's their second child? They can feed their child, nurse a child, change a diaper, cook dinner and put a load of laundry in while they're still healing. Crazy. And you're going to say that that's not, that they're not as capable. Are you insane? They're super woman, totally yeah. Are you out of your mind? Are you out of your mind and you think mind. Have you actually ever met a woman? Just asking, have you ever met a woman? These people that are making decisions, have you ever talked to a woman? Have you ever walked into a gym? I mean, yeah. I mean, when you walk into a gym, are you just in awe that the women outnumber the men? At least in my gym, when I walk in, the women outnumber the men I love it by like 70%. And these are women that are not just riding bikes, they're getting after it. More women lifting than men. I love that.
Jamie :
I absolutely love that we are changing it and women are showing up unabashedly being themselves. I had the opportunity to work with Sarah Davey. She's a weightlifter from Great Britain. She's also a pageant queen, so she has this Exactly. So she has these multiple sides to her that society will say are diabolically opposed. Not the case Sarah's like no, I love pageantry and I love weightlifting, and guess what? I can do both.
Audra :
You know you've historically said I can be one thing, I can be the, I can be the athlete, I can be the nerd. And they're now challenging those, those silos and thing. I want to. You're brilliant, you are, you are a media genius, you are, have the heart of the, an athlete. But what else do you do that challenges these norms, says that you are, aren't supposed to do?
Jamie :
Yeah, I love that question. I used to, when people would ask me that, I used to call myself a warrior princess. So this kind of concept of being someone who likes to physically present herself in a nice way, likes to wear nice clothes, but is incredibly fierce and ferocious. If you say something that goes against my values, I will fight tooth and nail and I have no qualms about sticking to my gun thing. Against my values, I will fight tooth and nail and I have no qualms about sticking to my gun thing, my opinion, fighting and truly believing in what I stand for.
Jamie :
I'm also an artist. I grew up painting and taking photographs, and that's a side to me that I truly love. I do, in my personal space, consider myself an athlete, though when I'm working with the best athletes in the world, I definitely do not wear that hat. I wear my Jamie is a communicator, jamie is a marketer hat, because that is the value that I am bringing to the table for them. I think some of the other identities that I hold most dear are Jamie as a partner I'm in a loving relationship Jamie as a sister. Jamie as a daughter, jamie as a good friend. I think that relationships are the currency that I really value most in this life, that investing in those relationships is what is really most important to me.
Audra :
All things can be true at the same time.
Jamie :
Yeah.
Audra :
Oh, I know that we are running out of time and I don't want to run out of time before I ask about just a couple more athletes that we need to be on the lookout for. Yeah, in Paris.
Jamie :
Absolutely. So a couple different names kind of come to mind Shelly Ann Fraser-Price so for those who don't know, she's a track and field star. Shikari Richardson is actually her direct competition, but she's been competing since the 2018 Beijing Olympics, so she had an incredible history. She's known as the pocket rocket. She's been incredibly outspoken about being a mom and coming back and actually having motherhood make her a better runner, so I'm very excited to watch Shelly Ann Fraser Price run.
Jamie :
One thing that I think is cool for people to learn is she has a foundation called the Pocket Rocket Foundation, which supports young Jamaican youth. So she's from Jamaica. So this is going to be her final Olympics, so I am hoping that she goes out with a hurrah. Someone else that I would love to draw attention to is from a lesser known sport. It's Janja Garnbrett. She is a Slovenian sport climber and, for those who don't know sport climbing, it made its Olympic debut in Tokyo. She is literally 25 years old and she holds a list of achievements that is longer than Santa Claus's list. I think that she was the Olympic champion in Tokyo and I think that she is coming in expected to defend her title.
Audra :
What is sports climbing? First of all, I've got a mental image and I'm thinking yikes, if it is what I think it is. I'm thinking not only is she brilliant, she's fearless. So tell me what it is.
Jamie :
Yeah, so there's a couple of different forms of sport climbing. Essentially it's sport climbing has gotten super popular over the last 20 years. There's a couple of different disciplines, there's three different ones, so they are. I believe it is. It's one based on time, so it's how fast you can go up the wall. There's also a bouldering one. Where it is, there's different surfaces that you have to climb up. And then there's a third different style that just became its new, its own discipline in the Olympics. But I'm going to have to circle back with you on that. I know that is a difference from Tokyo, when previously two of the disciplines had been combined and now they've actually expanded to have their own. But I know one is speed climbing and one is bouldering.
Audra :
So yep, it's exactly what I thought it was and yep, that takes nerves, of steel, concentration and guts.
Jamie :
Absolutely. One thing that I love to always highlight about Janja is she is an incredible advocate for body image and awareness around eating disorders, specifically in women athletes, I think, in sport, climbing in particular and sports where there's a lot of attention on the physical body, on speed, on how light you are to get up the wall. There are a lot of eating disorders and Janja has been an outspoken critic and also advocate for people who are going through that and saying we have to change this culture.
Audra :
Well, speaking of that, I just read an article yesterday about the women's Olympic uniforms.
Jamie :
Oh, they are, yes. So for those who don't know what Audra is talking about, nike is the track and field sponsor for the Olympic and Paralympic track and field kits. They unveiled their outfit, or what the athletes are competing in, last Thursday and the first look portrayed the male one male outfit versus one female outfit. The outfit that they portrayed for the female was incredibly high cut. It was essentially barely covered parts of your vagina, essentially and hundreds of athletes took to social media to criticize this. Tara Woods Hall basically said that's not even going to cover my hoo-ha.
Jamie :
Another athlete was like is this sponsored by European wax? I would actually highly recommend going back and reading the comment section, because athletes just lit into it and, frankly, deservedly so. It turns out that Nike does have a bunch of other options, but I think the problem is, first of all, if you are designing this, you have to put athletic performance first and foremost. Who's designing it? Make sure that women athletes are part of that design process, because they cannot be worried or thinking about anything besides just performing at their best.
Audra :
I just can't imagine being worried about being exposed. I cannot imagine that. Being a former competitive swimmer, I wore a Speedo for years because Speedos are super tight and you don't have to worry about your suit coming off.
Jamie :
Everyone thought it was a swim outfit. So many people commented like, oh, this is for swimming, right? No, no, it's for track and field.
Audra :
Yeah, it was. It was obscene. You look at it and you're like what? It doesn't make any sense at all and you would never do that to the male athletes, never, ever. It would never even be a conversation, it would never be an option. But it once again is not taking the female athletes seriously, as athletes Exactly In one wing shape or form, sexualizing them A hundred percent.
Jamie :
A hundred percent. If female athletes had been a part of the design process, I guarantee you that would not have happened. This is, I think, the latest example of products built for women by men. And guess what? They don't work.
Audra :
No, I mean, I can't imagine what that boardroom was like. I got a great idea. Look at this. I just can't even imagine. I'm even sports illustrated. No longer has the swimsuit edition. Nike do better do better.
Jamie :
100 we. We did a post about it on social media. That totally blew up. I think we're at 80 000 views just because people were up so up in arms about it. It is. It's ridiculous and we expect better and things need to be better.
Audra :
So we can't. We can't do better on our own. Jamie and I are giving it our best shot, because Jamie and I are big mouths. Clearly, we gave ourselves microphones and now we're big mouths, but we need everybody's help, jamie, what can we do to help further your endeavor to change the narrative of women in athletics, in the Olympics, in the Paralympics, and help elevate female athletes for the next generation to see them?
Jamie :
I'll give you one thing that directly relates to my work in Flamebearers and then a couple calls to action that relate to women's sports broadly. So the first is if anything I've said today resonates with you, please reach out. We have a collaborate button on our website. This is for people who, like what we're doing, may not have a concrete idea. So I'm not saying you have to come in and think, jamie, we're going to sponsor X or Y. You can say I really like the work you're doing and this is my skill set and I want to find a way to support you. Reach out. If that takes too long it's three minutes to fill up. Reach out to me via email. My email is jamie at flamebearerscom. I would love to hear from you and we can find a way for you to get involved with our work.
Jamie :
Now, if you don't want to get involved with Flamebearers in particular, but you want to support women's sports more broadly, three specific things you can do. Number one go to games. Go, actually have your money, do the talking. So go to your local professional women sports team. I am so excited that in Boston we have a professional women's soccer team coming to town and I will be there for as many games that I can possibly go to. So actually go to games. And if you had kids, take your kids so they grow up being women's sports fans. And if you had kids, take your kids so they grow up being women's sports fans. If you don't have the ability to go to a local game, tune in on TV and actually watch the game, because viewership numbers and attendance speaks volumes.
Jamie :
Number two is actually buy the swag and the gear that has the athletes' names on it. So buy the merch. A lot of that money actually goes directly into the pockets of the athletes. If athletes have companies, support those companies themselves. As an example, allison Felix has a shoe company that I am obsessed with. I own her shoe because I want to support Allison. So actually support the businesses and the merch of the women athletes. Number three it's probably the easiest of all three of them Follow the athletes on social media. This matters because athletes are all trying to monetize their following and once they have a following that's big enough they can actually get sponsorship from that and that's they can actually get sponsorship from that.
Audra :
Guys, these are easy things to do. It's easy things to do and one person can change the world. I promise you one person. You don't have to do what Jamie and I are doing by putting microphones in front of us, but these simple things, even by following, can change these lives, which will change the world. So please take action and do this, because it's not just for these athletes, it's for all of us. So please do that. Jamie, this is my favorite part. I know you've listened to other episodes, so this is my favorite part of the episode where I get to shut up and step back from the microphone and allow you to have an intimate moment directly with the audience, where you can leave them a lasting thought that they can take with them throughout the day, throughout the week. That'll give them something to think about and maybe might just inspire them with a good idea to come back with you for Flamebearers. So the mic can go to us.
Jamie :
I would say, first and foremost, thank you for having me. It's been an honor to speak with you and to be a part of your community, which I absolutely love and think is so important. The piece of advice, or one bit that I would like to leave people with is the fact that you're enough, the fact that each and every person listening to this is doing the best that they can and to feel valued and celebrated for wherever you are in that journey. I think that so often, myself included, I berate myself and I beat myself up for not passing certain finish lines, be they personally or professionally, and I think we, as women, need to take stock of the progress we've made and that we are actually doing enough.
Audra :
Oh, we're doing more than enough. Totally. We're doing more than our fair share For some.
Audra :
some reason it still doesn't sink in, though I I know, and I I have to remind myself that all the time I'm I'm guilty of that myself. Jamie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the work you're doing. We are going to be cheering you on, as well as your athletes, as you are there in Paris, and whatever we can do to help support you and your athletes, we will be there, thank you, thank you. Thank you for being here. I am so appreciative of your time and your work. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you all again for listening and we'll see you again next time.
