Celebrating Four Years: Authenticity, Empowerment, and the Journey of Women in the Arena Podcast with Audra Agen and guest host Dr. Andrea Vitz

What happens when you combine an anniversary celebration with a deeply personal journey? Join us for a special episode of Women in the Arena as we honor four incredible years of empowering women's voices, right on my birthday! I sit down with my dear friend, doctor of chiropractic and best selling author, Dr. Andrea Vitz, to reflect on the trials and triumphs of launching this podcast. From the unwavering support of friends to a pivotal conversation with my husband that helped me confront lifelong feelings of being an outsider, this episode is a testament to personal growth and the power of authentic connections.

Authenticity and self-expression take center stage as we tackle the complex dynamics women navigate daily. Together, Andrea and I discuss the internal struggle of balancing external validation with staying true to oneself. We highlight the liberating effects of embracing our full, authentic selves, and how doing so not only empowers us but inspires others. This conversation underscores the vital role women play as nurturing and authentic role models in fostering a community where everyone can thrive.

Andrea and I share my very personal journey of finding one's voice; a woman who overcame a tumultuous start and an abusive upbringing to create a platform for women's voices. We touch on navigating gender dynamics with empathy and the unexpected support from men who champion women's voices and their roles in this world. 

 Don't miss this inspiring celebration of resilience, authenticity, and the power of genuine connections.

https://andreavitz.com/about-dr-andrea-vitz/

Thank you for all of your support.

If you like what you hear, please go check out more episodes at https://womeninthearena.net/

Want to connect with me? You can click the "let's be friends" link and send me a message!

***Last thing- This is my WISH LIST of interviews:

• Joan Jett
• Dolly Parton
• Viola Davis
• Ina Garten

Maybe you can help a girl out...***

Go check out all of our episodes on our website at: https://womeninthearena.net/

If you'd like to connect, reach out to me at audra@womeninthearena.net

***One last thing...I have an interview wish list because a girl's gotta dream

• Viola Davis
• Dolly Parton
• Ina Garten
• Joan Jett

Maybe one of you can help me out!

Thank you all for supporting this show and all Women in the Arena!

Transcript

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 0:31

Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me again on a very special occasion, again this week. This week, this is my favorite show all year and the reason why this show is so special is because it is our anniversary show. It is our fourth anniversary and it also happens to fall on my birthday. It is done on purpose, because four years ago I had this crazy idea and I took a deep breath and a big swig of wine and I hit upload, had no idea what would happen and I launched this crazy show Four years ago. Four years ago today, Women in the Arena was born.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 1:25

And here we are, and every year on this day, I invite one of my wonderful friends to interview me. And this week, my dear friend, Dr Andrea Witts, is here to interview me, and she has been a previous guest and she is a powerhouse and she is not going to let me off the hook, she's just hold on. She is a doctor of chiropractic. She is the author of the bestseller the you You've Never Met. She has trained thousands of people on being free from their own toxic emotions, so you're no longer toxically drunk. She is the co-founder of the Lifted Academy and the founder of Level Headed Doc Inc. She's amazing, she has taught me a lot and she is here to interview me. It is my pleasure and my honor to hand the mic over to Andrea Witts. Andrea, the mic is yours.

Audra : 2:38

Wonderful. Audra, thank you so much for choosing me to host and interview you on this very special day. I think the Women in the Arena podcast is such an important podcast because it gives women the opportunity to have a stronger voice amongst each other and really to remind us that we're not alone, which is a huge component of my work. So it just aligns so perfectly with what I do empowering women, not because they need to be empowered, but because they just need to be reminded that they're already powerful. And I'm so proud of you for making that leap, taking that leap and hitting record and hitting upload and deciding to change lives from behind that microphone, and your voice and your presence and your intention is so beautiful and palpable to all of us. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for four years ago, making that decision and having the courage and deciding to do that. So, yay, happy fourth anniversary and happy birthday. What year is it for you for your birthday? 53. 53.

Audra : 3:49

Now, my husband always says that 50 is like being born, so that means you're really three years old. So that's fantastic, right? Because that's a halfway point. So far, we don't know, we might live to be 200 years in the future, right, maybe a thousand, it doesn't matter. But you've lived this incredibly full life. You have kids right, I do. They're both launched, they're launched, they're launched. So you're literally entering into the second stage of life, which I think of as so cool because, if you think about how long your life has been so far, you get to live that again. Only now you get to live that with launched kids who are probably amazing because you raised them and you can have no worries around that. You are married, correct? Yep, tell us about that. When did you get married?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 4:41

Young, very young. I was 24. He was 25. As a matter of fact, we joke because his birthday is October 15th. We got married October 20th and he says that we did that on purpose so he could never forget our anniversary date. So he was, he had just turned 25. We were super young and we say that we were just too. We were too young and stupid to be afraid. That's it Right.

Audra : 5:09

Let's just leave. We had no idea what forever even meant. Right, no idea, but we wanted to try it out together. Awesome, you're happily married.

Audra : 5:17

I know I've heard you say wonderful things about your husband, which is such a rare thing this day and age, and I'm really really happy that you can be that example for people, that you can be happy in your marriage, you can be successful in your career and you can reach for more in all those things. Even if you're happy, you can reach for more. So this is awesome. So you are three years old, with launched children, a happy marriage and incredible career, even though, you know, sometimes it's sticky. I'm sure you are a master of your life, so this is so great. I want to know. You know this interview sparked based on a conversation you and I had just as buddies the other day, and you had mentioned that your husband had really shined this beautiful light on a topic that had been haunting you for years, and I wish you and I had talked about this previously, because I think you and your husband and I would have been completely aligned on the answer and I would love you for you to share that. What was your struggle?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 6:21

Firstly, my struggle has been always feeling being on the outside, never actually being in, and what that means to me is I never felt like I completely belonged, like I was never quite chosen. And what I mean by that is I never in my family of origin, I never felt like I fit in. I never felt like they actually picked me. I never felt in any circle except for very, very small, chosen few friends and family. I've always felt like an outsider. I never felt like I really quite fit in. I've always felt respected. I've always felt well-lik, but I never felt like I was accepted.

Audra : 7:20

There's the word.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 7:22

Yes, I never felt accepted and I always thought that that that meant that there was something wrong with me. So I always worked really, really, really hard to find out what was wrong with me to be accepted, and I couldn't figure that out. So that is what I had been struggling with for years, which led to this conversation that I had out loud with my husband.

Audra : 7:49

Okay, awesome, and I think a lot of people can relate to that.

Audra : 7:52

You know, in my work I teach emotional sobriety and that is a very common struggle that people have and I think a lot of people don't even recognize they're living in that struggle.

Audra : 8:02

So the fact that you have that awareness to know like whoa, I'm kind of outside the circle here, I'm kind of like I'm not. I'm kind of like on the outside looking in and I don't feel like I could quite get all the way in the center, and like you probably felt and correct me if I'm wrong like there was a acting that had to go on in your life or you were in a movie and everyone else was kind of like the other stars of the movie or like the co-stars or supporting actors, and you're like, okay, how do I get that person to fit in my life? How do I get that person to really see me and think, wow, I truly, I truly accept this human being as they are. And a lot of people get into that sticking point and so I want to know what your husband's like. What gold did your husband lay down? That surprised you.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 8:57

Well, this was shocking because you know, as I shared with you before, that every once in a while my husband says something brilliant which just is surprising to all of us, because this is a man that fights with the electronics in our household and the house, and usually the electronics win. You know, they just like they. They fight back and he's like forget it, I just will chuck the, the electronics. But he said something so stunning to me that it like released me, which was people accept people like themselves. They recognize themselves in other people. You're not like other people, he says.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 9:51

You're constantly pushing people to be better than who they are. You're constantly pushing people to be outside of their comfort zones. You're constantly pushing people to see them, to see people as equal, regardless of what they wear on the outside, regardless of their the labels they wear. That's not comfortable for many people. You are constantly pushing people to be uncomfortable, and that's normal for you, and there's no way that they can claim you as one of their own, because you're not and that is not your role. It says so they cannot clean you as one of their own because you are not and that is not your position in life. So you are going to have to be okay with being respected and not accepted.

Audra : 10:50

Yes, there's so much truth to that Big round of applause for your husband for bringing that from the ether and just delivering that onto you and blessing you with that release, because that is a huge component of it. And what you're describing is what I call cultural codependency. It's a reliant on needing the approval and acceptance of those around us in order to validate our worth and our value in the world. And, of course, it comes from a place of when we were children, something happened to us or around us that made us believe we weren't worthy, we weren't deserving, we weren't good enough, et cetera, and we're therefore thrust into this space of shape-shifting ourselves, squirming around, trying to fit where we don't or aren't supposed to fit. And when you really let that go, or in other words, you accept that you don't need to be accepted, then you actually have the freedom to be the real you.

Audra : 11:53

And sometimes that can be scary, right, because there is this void when you come upon this cliff of like, oh, I've not been being the real me all the time around all these people because I've been wanting them to accept me, right.

Audra : 12:08

And so you finally ask yourself well, who would I be if I were just me in front of these people and you release that. And you'll find, when you release the burden of needing someone else to accept you, you automatically are closer to the person, because now they get to know the real you. And I think that there's a lot of people who do meet you that are like, um, you are putting a shiny mirror up to my face and it feels scary, so I'm going to hold you at an arm's length. Right, that's the. I think that's the real you showing yourself. But there's probably areas of your life that you didn't do that in order to accommodate their, their denial of you, their rejection, quote of you, you know. So what are some of the habits that you used or skills that you used to try to get people to accept you, maybe even outside of your integrity I mean, we're all the same so, like, show me what the worst looked like.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 13:11

For me. I think that I probably toned down my personality a little bit, which is I am a bigger personality than sometimes I even show. There are certain settings where I would probably be louder, I would probably have been a little bit more upbeat, I would have been a little bit more forward and I probably toned it down and brought it back a notch because I didn't want to seem too out there too much. I didn't want to be too much for the crowd. I think that's it is. I didn't want to appear to be too much.

Audra : 13:58

And so I, I reeled it in you, reeled it in you. You dimmed your light. You dimmed your light. And where does that come from for you? Like, at what point in your childhood did you get the belief instilled in you that you were too much?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 14:14

We only have an hour. That you were too much we only have an hour.

Audra : 14:18

Burn it down, audra. Why is that voice in your head? And you don't have to say whose voice it is? But do you know whose voice it is? Oh, yes, yes, I do. Wonderful, and I know you.

Audra : 14:28

You're probably totally fine with sharing all the things because you're like I want to help people. I will tell them everything. We share that as a value and I think that's what makes us such good friends. It's like here's where I sucked, like here's where, here's where I currently suck, like I'm working on this, and so I love how open you are and that I want you to recognize that. I want you to take what your husband said and take this conversation here and say okay, what are the things that I'm willing to fully let go of dimming? I'm no longer going to dim this. I'm going to be my full self and make sure it is actually your real self. So, even that really louder, bigger version of you, make sure that's also the real you before you turn that light on right.

Audra : 15:13

So get, do some dirty work where you're like okay, what is truly my personality? That comes from an authentic, heart centered place, not from a place of attention seeking, and if I am you kind of are? I mean, let's face it, you're an entertainer Like you are a communicator, you are out there, you are a sunshine in the world, so you're going to be a little bit brighter and louder than some people. But you know what Name? An entertainer? That's not Name somebody who's in the communication space, that's not full of energy and they're I hate this word, but they're kind of unapologetic about it. They're like this is who I am. This is how I get my point across.

Audra : 15:56

So just being cautious of am I actually being authentic in this space, or is this another skill that I'm using to be accepted? So my husband calls that the scale of polarity. Am I shutting myself down over here to be accepted? And then is my correction an overcorrection, interesting? Yeah, is there a place? I could be in the middle? That actually is more me and I can be louder because I'm being more clear, not because my volume's bigger. So I want to keep talking to you about this over the next year too, and watch how this unfolds as you release the old behavior of like I'm just going to shut this down, real quiet, and just be a little mouse versus big loud. I need to overcorrect, or is the big loud really you I'm fine with either, because I want to know. I just want to know the truth. So that's really cool that you were able to hear your husband see where you've been doing things like dimming your light and feeling sadness, sorrow and resentment, probably that you couldn't be all the way you.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 17:08

Oh yes, because there is this, and I think it's not just me, I think a lot of, especially women we pull ourselves back to make other people comfortable. Yep, because that's what we've been told to do, that's what we've been culturally programmed to do. And there have been times that I have felt strangled, that I have felt so anxious in my own body that I was like what am I doing here? Why am I standing here, feeling so strangled that I just I want to run from this room screaming.

Audra : 17:56

Yeah, trapped. Yes, this is so great, audra, that you bring this up. Because what women? Let's listen to us here. Okay, women, we are saying out loud that all of us have done some kind of a shape-shifting where we strangled ourselves to make sure that other people don't feel small. So, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're making ourselves small because we don't want other people to feel small. Hello, let's look at that. Use logic here.

Audra : 18:25

If we are chemical and electric beings, something happens in us. That is something called entrainment meaning. Have you ever heard that when you are around like the five people that you're around the most, you become them right? So our duty as women because we are the maternal, you know, reproducers of the world in any way, whether you have kids or not, you are a feminine energy that is required to be big, to be strong and to be authentic and nurturing, and you're supposed to be an example of your best version of you, so that other women can entrain to you and become like you. So that means, the more authentic I am, the more big I allow myself to be in energy and in even putting myself out there, I'm actually inspiring someone else. I'm not making them feel smaller, even if in the beginning they feel smaller because there's some disbelief that they have like, oh, I can't do that too, because we all felt that there's something in there that plants a seed. And then they see it again, and they see it again, and they see it again. They're like, oh wait, well, what if I took one step in that direction? And what if I just did a little bit more of that? And well, she does it. So why can't I do it? And all of a sudden, now that person is no longer strangled.

Audra : 19:57

And so I think Audra and I are saying we would like to be that for others. We would like to take our ropes off our neck, we would stop shape-shifting to accommodate, or you know, the people in the room. We would stop making ourselves small and being a chameleon so that we're accepted by others and just be authentically ourselves, in all of our power and all of our expertise, so that the women around us see us and they go, whoa, okay, what's my version of that? Giving people the permission through demonstration and example. And that's what I want to applaud you for specifically today, because this is your fourth anniversary and you have done so much for women all over the world by putting yourself out there and laying it all on the line, and now you're still engaging in a growth process.

Audra : 20:43

So, the same way, you tell other people hey, what's blocking you? How can we overcome that? How can we be better? You're still doing that. So important, and that's what makes you respectable, because you're like I still see another thing I could get better at. And what does that do? That inspires everyone listening. Right, guys, like, raise your hand if you're like yep, I'm inspired. Okay, there's something that I'm not doing that's in the best interest of me and the people around me. I'm going to change that. So, audra, super, applaud you for that. I want to know what instilled in you this desire to help other women, not even just the podcast. I want to know from a purpose angle. Were you born like this? Was I born like this?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 21:31

Was I born like this.

Audra : 21:32

Were you born a helper? Were you born an inspirer or a truth teller? Like what? What makes you light on?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 21:41

fire. This is going to be a lot of truth right now. So I was. I was born. I was born the oldest and the and I'm born the oldest daughter. I was also born into a family of privilege that was also very abusive, with which we held secret, which most families of privilege that are abusive do. Nobody knew, as a matter of fact, people still don't. So we had to act like the perfect family outside the walls, but inside the walls nobody knew. And I was also born a fighter.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 22:29

I literally was born fighting for my life. I was born with something called an Andrea knows this technical term, it's a medical term. I was born with bilateral pneumothoraces, which basically means I was born with a forceps delivery and I was born with pinholes in my lungs. This was 1971. This was 1971. So at the time the doctors basically put me aside to die and my mom was up to I have no idea what kind of machine it was in 1971, but was breathing for me and the doctor said if she lives, she has an 80% chance of being brain damaged. Well, I beat the odds and then I keep beating the odds, and so I was literally born fighting for my life and I feel like I've been fighting for my life ever since. So I've always had this sense of I'm here for a reason that has always been with me, that I've always had this sense of I was born for a bigger purpose. That's never left me ever that. I've always felt like I was born to be used as something.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 24:09

And as far as speaking up and speaking out, in this particular case, I've worked in a male-dominated industry my entire career. Growing up in this career, there wasn't a whole lot of guidance, whole lot of guidance, and it was. The guidance was if you want to survive in this industry, you're going to have to have a tough skin and you're just going to have to tolerate it. So I compartmentalized it, like every other woman in this industry. We just compartmentalized it and we stuffed it and pretended it didn't matter and it didn't happen. And we pretended that we were in on the jokes that we were clearly the butt of and even though it didn't, it stung, we pretended that it didn't matter and we dealt with all the abuse and the harassment and the sexual innuendos and all of this and all of that. And all of that starts to build up and build up, and build up and build up and then finally, four and a half years ago, I had no other room to stuff it. There was just no other room, and something happened and it was innocuous. It just was one last thing that my brain could no longer handle. There was just no more room to put it and my brain exploded. It just said I don't have another place to put it, and I was furious to put it. And I was furious.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 25:55

It was December 2019. After decades of putting up with it, I mean December 2019. 2019. I was like I'm still putting up with this shit, really, and my brain, just all I saw was red and I was like I have to, I can't, I can't deal with this anymore.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 26:21

And in the middle of my fury, I suddenly had a very clear thought and looked around and realized I wasn't standing there by myself. And looked around and realized I wasn't standing there by myself. I saw all these women doing this, putting up with the same thing, but we had been conditioned not to talk to each other, and so I went looking for somewhere, some way that we could talk to each other and feel valued and feel heard and know that we meant something to each other and meant something to the world couldn't find anything. So I thought, well, I'll make something.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 27:03

Yeah, and that's how this happened. Is that it? It came from a lifetime of feeling like I needed to matter, even though I had a lifetime of not feeling like I mattered, a lifetime of putting up with other people's abuse, other people's comments, and knowing that it wasn't true, knowing that it shouldn't matter, and finally saying none of that matters. And I'm going to do something about it. And I'm not just going to do it for myself, because I was put here for a larger purpose and I can't just defend me, because I was given a voice. And if I'm going to speak up, then I'm going to speak up for as many people as I possibly can, and that's how this was born.

Audra : 28:07

Excellent. You know, your story about your birth is really interesting. I believe that when we start from a deficit around anything, that's what we're going to become best at, and when you think about the human voice, it really is what coming through an instrument. What is it? What's the human voice?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 28:35

human voice. It's breath, it's breath, it's breath, it's it's. You cannot speak without breath, and I was born without breath.

Audra : 28:40

Yeah. So you overcame something that, believe it or not, was just your sign that you were going to have to use your voice. You were going to be born into an abusive family where you're going to be taught not to speak. You're going to be born into an abusive family where you're going to be taught not to speak. You're going to then choose a career and a path and surround yourself in an environment with people that feel like home, and you're going to again get a lot of reps in not speaking. And all of a sudden, you aligned with your actual purpose and it took that much time to build your energy toward a different solution. And all of a sudden, your lungs filled with air again and you directed that air in a more meaningful and powerful way that would actually solve the suffering of so many people that don't even know that it's even allowed to not suffer around Like. They don't even know that they could say something and actually make a difference in their situation, or that they could step away and surround themselves with more people that they want to be like, versus the people that tell them who they're supposed to be or that they're nothing, Even if they don't say it specifically in those ways.

Audra : 30:01

As human beings, we find ways to hurt others through the seam. You know what I mean. I don't have to tell you directly. Oh, I don't like you. I have little seams that I can find in you and it's like those little fractures that happen to us when we're little that open up and I swear, as human beings, we can find it in the other person and it's probably because we're all the same. It's like when you say something to me, it's going to feel you know, before emotional sobriety training, I should say. Now I'm pretty hard to trigger, but if you were to say something to me, you would be able to find a seam that I could also find in you. It would be very similar.

Audra : 30:43

And it all comes down to separation, being alone and being not good enough. Right, Absolutely. You got to a place of belief, so much belief in not good enoughness and no voice that you flipped and did the scale of polarity. Let's say you overcorrected. But I don't think it was overcorrecting, I think it was definitely needed. It was like a hammer coming down on the nail and you just came down hard.

Audra : 31:18

But I think you do it in a pretty sophisticated way. You're not bashing men, because it's not all men that are doing it. Most of my friends are men. You know, my closest friends, and so I'm a hundred percent respectful of you for that reason, because you're just like here's what it is, straight out, straight out of the box Like. This is what I experienced. Here's some way around it.

Audra : 31:44

You got to use your voice and you got to learn to use your voice in a powerful, in in strong manner, which doesn't have any resemblance of hysteria, anger or shaming. When you're a true leader, you speak with authority and you speak with kindness because you want to demonstrate to the people that have hurt you in the past what it could look like if they did the same thing. Because, guaranteed the people in your life that abused you as a child, they literally didn't know how to do something else, and the people who abuse you in your workplace literally don't know how to do it differently. That doesn't give them an excuse and it doesn't mean I agree with them, but they don't have the skillset or the desire to learn something new.

Audra : 32:36

So I love that you just went out there and you're like. You know what I'm going to voice what they could do different. I'm going to voice what I experienced. I want people to understand what it's like to stand in our shoes within the arena. I love the title of your podcast also, and that's the next question is how did you come up? Love the title of your podcast also, and that's my next question is how did you come up with the title of your podcast?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 32:57

Well, I actually came up with the title before I knew I was going to do a podcast and it's a very funny story. I love Renee Brown and I watched her special years ago and I watched her special years ago and I have a friend who is an artist and before I even knew I was going to have a podcast, before anything, I had her make this huge plaque. You can't see it. It's hanging in my office. I have this huge plaque. It's probably it's like three feet wide by three feet tall.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 33:41

I said I need you to paint me the man in the arena quote Um, and I want to hang it in my office. It's on she. She hand painted it. It's on wood, um, it's beautiful.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 33:50

I need you to paint me this quote, but I need you to fix the pronouns, because this speaks to me, that quote speaks to me, it is my life. But I need the pronouns to be fixed because that is how I feel, because I get knocked down and I dust myself off, I pick myself up and I keep going. Can you do that for me? And she said yes. So it hung in my office for two years before I decided to do a podcast and when I decided that this is what I needed to do. I need to elevate voices. The way to speak truth to power is through, like you said, authority of your voice. It's not through negativity, it's not. The world is full of negativity. Look where it got us. Yep, it's this. When I decided to do that, I was pacing in my office, thinking of all kinds of things to call this thing pacing, pacing, pacing, staring into space, and I was staring at this plaque and realized I had named it two years prior and didn't even know I was doing it.

Audra : 35:08

Yes, that's what I did. Oh, they've got chills all over. That is so great. Do you have that picture close by? I don't. I think that might need to be a post in the and when you release this episode, I think that needs to be the cover.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 35:27

I will post that. You know. I will tell you that through doing this, through putting out truth and transparency, I've had lots of surprises, and some of the greatest surprises have been the amazing feedback that I have gotten from men, Because they see what I'm doing. They have been my greatest supporters. Yeah, they have they. They don't shout it from the rooftops because they don't. They're not comfortable with that yet, and I'm okay with that.

Audra : 36:09

They're in their own cultural codependency they are and.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 36:11

I'm, but I'm okay with that And're in their own cultural codependency. They are, but I'm okay with that and I respect that. But they have sent me they've referred me the most amazing women to interview. They send me notes of encouragement. I've had one very brave man be one of my interviewers for one of my anniversary shows. They have been so supportive, incredibly supportive. They have also been responsive. As I have grown through this, because of this show, because of the women I've met, because of you, I have grown part of this and I have recognized things that I have done, that I need to stop doing like allowing people men to speak over me in phone calls and I, in private, will tell them to stop it. I will not do it in a group setting because that will not be well received, Correct. I will do it in private and they stop.

Audra : 37:28

Can you give us an example of what you say and how you say it. I think there's women listening going. But how, but how, but how? How did you get the courage? How did you? What words did you?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 37:38

use. I will tell them my voice needs to be heard as well. My voice isn't as deep as my male counterparts, it may not be as loud, but what I have to say is just as important, and you need to provide me the space, as well as my female counterparts, to be heard, and I'd appreciate the opportunity for that space. And the response is I didn't even know I was doing that.

Audra : 38:17

Usually right, because what did we talk about earlier? They don't know. And here's the thing men I say men I don't mean like globally. I know there's differences, but men, for the most part, love fixing things. They love it, they love being valued for that. They're incredibly brilliant at doing it and I think if we gave them more of an opportunity to look at themselves which is what I do every single day of my life as a teacher of this give them the opportunity to look at who they're truly being, cause, like this guy said, oh, I didn't even know, I'm just doing what I've always done, I'm just being that teenage kid. How he survived.

Audra : 39:00

And then we expect them to just automatically grow. We didn't even automatically grow, we're still the little girl, and so we have to be more open to being tougher and being because you already are tough, everyone you know you are but being tough on the other scale, being tough and like I'm going to be able to hold the space for this man or woman, but this man who doesn't know how yet, and I'm going to take time and I'm going to open his eyes and he might fight back, he might be arrogant, he might use emotionally triggered behaviors that he's always been using. So why would you be surprised? Because he feels threatened, he feels embarrassed, he feels like you're tussling with him, but you're coming from a place of motherly, maternal nurturing, that is your wheelhouse. Even if you don't have kids, you can tap into this amazing space of I'm going to sit here with this person and I'm going to show them the way, and I'm going to do it not in a shamey or condescending way. I'm going to do it like hey, let me grab your hand and show you how to be a leader in the most true way, by seeing all these people as equals in the way that I mean it. Right, clearly, we're different. Men and women are different. We're not equal, we're totally different, but we're equal in the fact that we are all born in this, all born in this, I want to say divine way. We're all we are, all these pure, amazing, innocent creatures. When we come here and then things happen and we get knocked off course. And so what are we here to do? But to help each other get back on course with love and with excitement and enthusiasm and forgetting all the places we were victimized.

Audra : 40:56

I always say this, and you're going to agree with me, audra, when you remain a victim, you make more victims because you're trapped in that emotion of resentment and embarrassment and shame and frustration with yourself because you're not speaking up, because you don't know. You know you're hopeless because you don't know how to speak up. And that's why I love what you just taught everyone that's listening, it's just grabbing them because they're literally just like you, holding them, holding them by the arm and say, hey, I really need this from you right now. I'm recognizing you're struggling with letting me speak. You might not even be aware of it, so I'm not even mad at you, I'm not upset. We're cool, but I really.

Audra : 41:42

There's a reason I'm here and if, if my voice isn't heard, then why am you know? Why am I here? And I love that you just you brought him in on it with you, as opposed to creating more separation. I mean because that's the whole point, audra, you're like this is the point we're separate, we shouldn't be separate, women shouldn't be separate. So how can we separate men from the equation and expect us to all of a sudden be unified? So I love your approach in that. That is wonderful. I mean, god. I could ask you a million other questions and I reckon. I'm looking at the clock, I'm like, okay, 15 more minutes ish, and I want to make sure you can just free flow a little bit. But I want to know what is it that you are most excited about having since you launched your podcast and or in your 53 years of life? What are you most excited? What is back there that I've not seen yet, that you've not shared?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 42:46

What I'm most excited about is that I haven't. I haven't a clue what I'm doing next. Oh yeah, I mean, I know that that sounds absolutely ridiculous, but hear me out. I was a young mother. I became a mother at 26. I became a mother at 26. My son was you know. We were married a whole whopping 10 months when we found out that we were going to have our son and, like I said, like everything else, we were too young and stupid to be scared. We were just like, oh okay, we didn't plan this. But hey, all right, let's go, we're dumb. So we had our son at 26. We had our daughter at 29.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 43:34

So I've had this amazing career, but I really ran my career around my kids. I've had this just incredible career that I've been a remote sales executive for the past 20 years on purpose, so I could be available for my children. It has been hard. I mean, I was remote before there was even a remote thing, before anybody knew what remote working was, because that wasn't a thing. And being a sales executive is not easy. Especially being a female sales executive is not easy. But I did it on purpose, because I wanted to make a great living and be flexible, but my kids were always at the central of it. Now they're out of the house, they have their own lives. For the first time in my adult life, I'm at the center of my life.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 44:40

I'm at the center, the kids are out. I don't have to organize my life around them. I get to organize my life around me, which at first was terrifying. Now it's exciting and a little scary and I haven't a clue what to do with it, which is fun, exciting, terrifying. I'm a type, a personality. I have said that many times on this show. Andrea met me for the first time and in the first three minutes she knew that about me, that I have a personality and I haven't a clue. But that is what is I'm so excited about it, because I don't know, I have no idea, and I'm also a creative person. This, this podcast, has unleashed this creativity in me that I never knew I had in me. So the sky's the limit. I haven't any idea what I'm going to do with it. And the benefit of having kids young is that you are young, empty nesters and there's a whole second chapter of life to go live. So, yeah, that's what I'm the most excited about is that I haven't any idea what I get to do next.

Audra : 45:57

I love that. I have some ideas about what you could do next, but I'm gonna keep those to myself and we'll talk about that offline. I'm super excited for you. I feel like your life is really just beginning. Like you said, your brain develops when life is really just beginning. Like you said, you know you, your brain develops when you're 25 years old. It's fully developed, and you decided to use your first year with a brain to have a kid, you know, like you. So you're experiencing life with a fully formed brain for the first time as an, as an individual person, without kids attached to them, and that's pretty powerful, and so I'm going to ask you just a couple of questions with different themes here.

Audra : 46:37

What would you say is the most important piece of advice for a woman in marriage? And take your time to answer this, and it could be a few things, but I feel like you know, if we're not looking at our relationships, even your boyfriends girl, you know girlfriends, husbands, wives, whoever you're with your romantic relationship or your partnership is really the most important relationship you have, because this is the person that's mirroring back to you what they see. This is the person that you are, you know, experiencing all of your life journey with. So it's so important and imperative that it is healthy and it seems like you've done a really good job. I don't know all the ins and outs of your marriage and I'm sure that it looks like a lot of other marriages and that I'm sure there's hiccups and ups and downs and things like that, but for you two, what's been your go-to either solution or like trick or hack that helps you guys stay aligned Because we do.

Audra : 47:41

We bring that relationship I want to call it muck into our parenting. We bring it into our personal health care. We put it into our. We bring it into our parenting. We bring it into our personal health care. We put it into our. We bring it into our workplace. As women, it's really hard to compartmentalize that into a different space and, honestly, for men too, they just do a better job denying it and pretending it's not there sometimes. But women tend to have a harder time going to work when they've just had a huge fight with their partner, for example. So what is your secret for us? Secret sauce us.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 48:16

A couple of things. One, um, emotions are great, emotions are fantastic. Falling in love is that? Falling in love fades the love of marriage. Lasting marriage is not a feeling, it is a choice. It is a choice that you make every single day. It is a choice that when you get up and the garbage needs to go out and when the dogs are making you crazy and that there are bills to pay, that is a choice every single day.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 48:59

So when you are falling in love, you need to make those, you have to discuss and make those decisions. Talk about those choices, because that's forever, that's the forever part. You need to start. You need to talk about the forever part up front and know what you're getting into, because the falling in love part is the fun part. You need to discuss the mundane stuff, the stuff that gets hard, the messy, all of that. That's the first thing. The second thing don't let society dictate what your roles are. My husband was a stay-at-home dad because he was better at it. He just was. That's fine. Don't let society tell you what you should and shouldn't do this is exactly right there.

Audra : 49:58

audrey, you just described another version of cultural codependency. I have to be, I have to play this role so other people won't be threatened by me and I don't mean threatened like unsafe. But there is a version of people that feels unsafe a little bit and just like grossed out or it just doesn't look right to them and they instantly judge that are flooded with negative emotions. That's their thing, that's their prejudgment and their stereotyping. And so for you, you're saying ignore that completely, do not allow yourself to shapeshift or get smaller or change your plan or decision that you made an integrity, because that person across the street might think something funny.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 50:45

Right, exactly, and there's that. And then there's also there are women like me, that I, and there's lots of women like all of you that are so capable that you can. You can fix everything. You can fix everything in five minutes flat and be down the road before your husband has even put one foot on the floor. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, because take this from me, that starts to erode his self-confidence. Give us examples.

Audra : 51:30

What would we not do?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 51:34

Okay. What I mean by that is that my husband needs time to think through an issue I think, very quickly, I can solve. I'm great in a crisis. As a matter of fact, I'm best in a crisis, because I was raised in an abusive family. The better the crisis, the faster and more clearer I think. That's just how it works. That's just the way the brain works for me, and I can solve a problem very quickly.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 52:12

My husband needs time to think, and so what happens is, if there is a crisis, I have already had the problem solved, I already have it in motion and I'm on to the next. He needs time to think through it, he needs time to plan it, and then he needs time to plan it, and then he needs time to execute it. You do that often enough. That erodes his self-confidence, that erodes his position in the marriage, that erodes his self-worth as a man and it puts him in this weird position. And it puts you in this weird position of more in your masculine, which is not where you want to be.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 53:02

There is a balance. You don't want to do that. You want to give your husband space to allow him to help you solve the problem Doesn't mean he doesn't want to. You just need to allow him to help you solve the problem. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That is not you making yourself small. That is giving him room, opportunity, opportunity to come up to your level. I have made so many mistakes where I just eliminated him. I just eliminated him, I didn't give him opportunity to come up to my level because he wasn't coming up fast enough.

Audra : 53:53

Awesome. And then, on the flip side, what is something that you would tell men about, because obviously it goes the other way too. What is it that men do that take away a woman's femininity?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 54:10

Femininity, not saying give me a moment, I want to help you, give me a moment, take a breath, saying I know that you've got this, but I want to help you. Please take a moment, take a deep breath. I don't want you to handle this on your own. Please breathe, give me a moment to catch up and we'll do this together. Language, language, communication Don't hold it all in. Communication is key and I do not want to mislead everybody. My husband and I sucked at communication for a really long time. We were just very stubborn to not give up. That's the key is that we were really, really stubborn to not give up. We have gotten much, much, much better at communicating as we have gotten older. He has said I need you to give me a moment so I can come up to your level and I'll be okay. I need you to catch up.

Audra : 55:20

And then where are you? Not at his level?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 55:24

Um, where am I not at his level? Um, he chills a whole lot better than I do. Yeah, I, I, I have no chill.

Audra : 55:35

There's no chill here, and do you find like if you spend some time around him in his chill, it allows you to learn that?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 55:42

Sometimes I am not, I do, I don't know.

Audra : 55:46

You could say the same thing. You could say give me a minute for a second to catch up to your chill.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 55:52

Yeah, I. I just wish he would chill differently. I am not, I'm not great at watching YouTube videos all day long. Can we chill differently? I mean, I, I'm open to chilling different. Let's go hang out in the pool, yeah.

Audra : 56:07

Yeah. Compromising communication, I love it, yeah. And then wrapping up today. First of all, again, happy birthday, congratulations on the four year anniversary of Women in the Arena and lastly, I just want you to kind of send us off with if somebody were just starting out in their career as a woman, what piece of advice could you give me in like 30 seconds Be?

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 56:35

you Do not compromise. You Don't pick up the coffee cups in the conference room. For the love of God, do not pick up the coffee cups in the conference room and do not make yourself small. You have earned your right to be there. Do not give up your seat. You stay firm in your seat. They can make their own seat. They'll make room for themselves. You stay firm.

Audra : 57:04

That's what you do. So anywhere, you recognize that you might be going into a codependent behavior of wanting to appear a certain way or not wanting anyone to feel uncomfortable or dipping your toes into a role that you don't really want, but you think you're supposed to take pull back from that and be more authentic, because that is really what you're saying here. That is the message of the entire day is not getting sucked into cultural codependency. To be able to shine your light, turn that dimmer back up and be completely comfortable being her. Thank you, Audra. What a lovely conversation. I feel like I could talk to you all day. I've always felt like that and I really again so honored that you chose me for this. I know it's a huge thing for you and so when you asked me to do it, I just was all giddy inside and I love, love, love serving women and I love helping as much as I can. So I love you. Thank you for all you do for all of us, and we will see you next.

Audra : 58:11

you Thank you for all you do for all of us and we will see you next time.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 58:15

Thank you, and before we let you go, where can everybody find you so they can listen to your show and find your books and hear more about your work?

Audra : 58:28

Okay, Wow, Well, mine, you could check out my podcast on any place that has podcasts. It's called Level-Headed Talk. All one word level-headed and talk. You can email me, Andrea, at liftedacademycom if you want a more personal intro. I always respond to emails. I love connecting with new people, so please, even if you just want to say hi, reach out to me. I'd love to pump pop on a phone call with you and get to know you and help you in any way I can. In a short amount of time and um, if you also wanted to check out our website, liftedacademycom, you can get a little bit of a sneak peek into what we're growing over here. I would love to help all of you. My book is called the you You've Never Met how to Stop Experiencing Pain and Chaos in All of your Relationships by Sobering Up Emotionally Speaking Again. I love you all. I wish I could meet all of you and give you a hug. Audra, thanks for creating such an incredible community. You're amazing. And, Audra, thanks for creating such an incredible community You're amazing.

Dr. Andrea Vitz: 59:32

Andrea, thank you for being here with me and doing this with me. I was really nervous before we started, because I have no idea what to expect. This was awesome. Thank you so much for being here. I adore you. Thank you for being here and doing this, and I want to send a very, very special thank you to all of you for being here with me for the last four years. There's absolutely no way I could have done this for four years and beyond without your support, so I want to thank all of you for hanging out here with me and supporting me, and I'll see you all in season seven. See you next time.