Mastering the Mind: Joanna Kleinman's Method to Mute Doubts and Design Your Life

Are the whispers of doubt and self-critique holding you captive? Break free as we sit down with Joanna Kleinman, the mastermind behind the groundbreaking Mind Method, and learn how to silence that inner critic once and for all. This episode peels back the layers of the subconscious mind, revealing how our automated thoughts shape our reality and how we can redefine success on our own terms, emphasizing personal growth over external achievements.

I open up about my own transformational journey with the Mind Method, and we delve into its four powerful steps—Meet, Investigate, Neutralize, and Design. Discover how this practice, more than just a fleeting fix, offers a roadmap for a lifetime of intentional living. We discuss how to recognize our own subconscious triggers and how, by consciously rewiring our thought processes, we can align our lives with our deepest aspirations. Get ready to be equipped with tools that empower you to live authentically and on purpose.

Finally, we unpack the true essence of personal fulfillment and joy. Joanna and I share strategies for nurturing self-validation and happiness as primary drivers of our growth, challenging the conventional belief that success is the gateway to joy. This episode is about building resilience in our authentic selves and making choices that resonate deeply with who we are, allowing us to infuse every day with fun and connection. Join us and be inspired to cultivate a life filled with genuine contentment and satisfaction.


https://www.innercriticassessment.com/

Go check out all of our episodes on our website: https://womeninthearena.net/


If you are ready to tell your story or want to refer someone, please email me at audra@womeninthearena.net

***Last thing- I'd love to interview the following women:

• Joan Jett
• Dolly Parton
• Viola Davis
• Ina Garten

Maybe you can help me get there****


Thank you all for supporting this show and all of the Women in the Arena!!

Transcript

Audra: 0:34

Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me again this week. This week we're going to jump into it. We're going to dive into some pretty deep, hard stuff, necessary stuff, but it'll be a journey, and one I hope that you are willing to take with us. This week I am joined by Joanna Kleinman, and she is a licensed psychotherapist, a best-selling author, the CEO of the Throating your Inner Critic and the creator of the Mind Method. We're going to talk all about that and how it can benefit you and help elevate your life. It is my pleasure and my honor to introduce to you Joanna Kleinman. Joanna, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.

Joanna : 1:17

Thank you so much for having me, Audra. I'm really happy to be here.

Audra: 1:21

I'm really excited for you to be here. We're going to talk about some really interesting stuff, probably some stuff that's going to make us uncomfortable, but that's where we grow right when we push ourselves outside our comfort zone and start to examine some things that we aren't so excited about.

Joanna : 1:38

That's the only way we grow is by being outside of our comfort zone and looking at the things that sometimes we don't want to look at yeah.

Audra: 1:48

so just so everybody knows I am putting myself in the hot seat. I'm not asking you guys to do something that I haven't already done myself. So just know that I'm here with you trying to grow and stretch as much as I can. Let's start about. First of all, let's start with the Throating your Inner Critic. What does that mean? The Throating your Inner Critic, right.

Joanna : 2:12

Okay. So we have a mind that is automatic. We don't just like our body breathes for us, our body makes our heart beat for us, our minds just go. We don't tell our minds where to go, our mind just goes and most people follow the thoughts in their mind without giving any thought to their thoughts, right? So what most people don't understand is that it is our automatic thoughts that really determine how we see everything, how we everything in our life, how we see ourselves, how we see what's possible for ourselves, how we see what is going to unfold in our future. It determines our relationship with ourselves. It determines our relationship with everybody in our life.

Joanna : 3:12

The key to a life that really is successful and I don't mean successful like making money and meeting your goals. Okay, most people think when they think about success, they think, oh, that's about how much money am I making? What are the goals that I'm accomplishing? Those things only come after we are willing to really do the deep work to shift our paradigm that we're looking at everything from the inside. Most people, unfortunately, because we have this automatic mind and we've been taught from our culture to see everything through this automatic mind, we view success as a future based arrival point. Whatever it is that we are creating or designing in our future. We live like achieving that thing. Whatever it is Okay, that's the thing that's going to bring me my contentment, my joy, my fulfillment, and that is a recipe for disaster.

Audra: 4:24

So I'm going to stop you there for a minute, because the first thing that I thought of was you're saying that our minds run on autopilot. Yes, but with our minds running on autopilot, we're trusting something that we are not conscious of, with such a huge aspect of our lives, which is how we are projecting ourselves, how we are driving ourselves, how we see ourselves, and we're leaving it to a mind that's on autopilot.

Joanna : 4:52

Yes, so this statistic is really scary. Okay, our life is governed 95% of the time from our subconscious mind. What 95% of our life? And I call our subconscious mind our inner critic mind. It's our automatic mind.

Joanna : 5:21

Now, the reason why I call the work that I do and the book that I wrote dethroning your inner critic is because this is such a deeply entrenched, conditioned mind. Okay, in fact, if it's actually conditioned into our brain, there are well-worn neural pathways that have us continuing to regurgitate the same thoughts and beliefs that create the same emotions, and those emotions create the same behaviors, and those behaviors give us our life and we think that we're having new thoughts about our current circumstances. But when you really understand your mind on a different level, what you start to see is that our thoughts are not new. In other words, whatever you're thinking about let's say, your business or your partner or some part of your life you have a seven-year-old version of that same thought. You have an 18 year old version of that same thought. You have a 29 year old version of that same thought. Right, it's just the same thought that plays on a loop.

Joanna : 6:46

And because we're never able to get rid of those thoughts, the work that I do is about creating a space between you, who you really are, and that automatic mind, such that you can see that mind so clearly when it's hijacked you that now you have a choice, right. I call that unhooking yourself from your automatic mind, which, by the way, lives in a separate part of your brain. Then the part there's a whole different mind, that 5% that we're right that lives in a different region in your brain. So when you know how to unhook yourself from that automatic mind and you know how to direct yourself towards the mind that I call your authentic self, you're living a very different life on all fronts.

Audra: 7:49

So I wanna, first of all, my brain is spinning I'm not sure which one it is, so we're gonna break this down so it might be a little bit easier for us to understand, because I'm sure there's a lot of people that are listening right now, going Joanna, what, what?

Joanna : 8:09

I mean, my own head is going pooh wow, I know it's a lot, it's a lot.

Audra: 8:16

So I want you to give me an example of a thought that I probably had at seven or six or five or whatever. The case may be that I've just reiterated it year after year, after year, and now I have that same thought, now at 52, that I did it five, seven whatever, yeah, okay.

Joanna : 8:35

So let's say, let's take the area of business, okay, cause we're talking about women that are in the arena, right, we're talking right, exactly. So let's say you're going for a promotion. What you're experiencing is a tremendous amount of anxiety about this promotion and whether you're gonna get it, and it's kind of gripped you and you're in this space of overwhelm and upset and dread, cause you're really not sure if this thing is going to happen or not. If we really start to explore what that dread and upset and overwhelm is really about, what we're probably going to see underneath it is some fear, and it's probably some fear that in some way, I'm afraid I'm not good enough for this, or I'm afraid that the person that is making the decision is not going to see who I really am and the value that I could provide by stepping into this position, or somebody else is going to be better equipped at being in that position when we start looking at that. That is a worthiness conversation. That is a deep-seated belief that in some way, number one, you're afraid you're not good enough and number two, you need that person, that person that's making the decision, to see you as good enough. Getting that position determines your worthiness, such that if you don't get it, it feeds into this core belief that in some way you are not enough.

Joanna : 10:23

Now if we go back to seven years old and I'm going to do kind of a benign example okay, let's say your mom screams at you for spilling milk. You're seven years old. You have no idea that what's really going on in mom's life is she's having major issues with your dad and, whatever the case may be, she can't pay bill or write, there's trouble at home, or it could be even something even more benign like she's gained 15 pounds and she's upset with herself. At seven years old, we don't understand that her anger about the milk isn't directed at us because we're seven, and so we then make up a lot of beliefs, a lot of things about ourselves, and that's all subconscious. We don't even recognize that we're doing that. So somewhere deep down that seven-year-old little girl feels like in some way she's bad or she's in some way done something wrong, such that her mother is not just upset about the milk but is disappointed in her. Now that subconsciously becomes a lens through which we see the world. So now, fast forward, you're 15, and you've got a dance at school and little Joey asks little Susie to go to the dance instead of going with you.

Joanna : 11:52

Right, that's going to be evidence that's gonna go right into that fundamental core belief. So by the time you're 52, I'm 53, if we are not consciously aware of where our minds have been going, can you imagine how much evidence we've gathered over the course of our life to prove that core wound to be correct? And what happens is we are always defending against feeling that way. So somebody, let's say, that has a core wound of not being enough, that person may in fact grow up to be somebody that gets three PhDs, top performing of her company, created this hugely successful business, whatever the case may be, and yet, despite all of these accomplishments and all of these check marks, she still feels like that not enough, little girl.

Joanna : 13:02

It becomes this vicious cycle, this bottomless pit where we keep overcompensating these wounds that we don't even know that we have deep down and no matter what our accomplishments are, no matter what our successes are, we can't really be in that sense of being whole and being enough and being so worthy of the life that we've created.

Joanna : 13:34

And really at the heart of what creates our experience of ourselves and our life is what do we truly believe about ourselves and our life now? Nothing external is going to fill that void. Filling the void comes from really understanding how to direct your mind to fundamentally different thoughts and beliefs about who you are right now and the life that you've already designed right now, such that when you are directing your mind there, you have very different experience of who you are. You are way more in touch with how far you've come. You're way more in touch with gratitude. You're way more in touch with the abundance that's all around you right now. You're way more in love with yourself, which then has you be way more able to be connected to other people, and the ripple effect of that, of that internal experience of yourself, literally changes the direction of your life moving forward.

Audra: 14:46

Tell us more about that, then, because I'm thinking. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, we're wandering around, not aware that we really are internally wounded children that's correct Wandering around with these tapes that are running around in our head that we don't even know and we are blocking ourselves.

Joanna : 15:08

Absolutely, and it literally shapes everything.

Audra: 15:12

Which is mind blowing, because I know that our minds are wired to look for things that seem similar, seem safe, seem known. We are wired that way because it's that whole safety fight or flight, the whole thing. I know that that is what that's all about. So we're looking for evidence of these core beliefs that weren't really ours to begin with, right.

Joanna : 15:41

That's what's going on. So fix us, joanna, fix us. So the thing is and again I'll go back to why I call it dethroning because this is work that we all need to do, moment by moment by moment, glimpse by glimpse by glimpse. When we see our inner critic mind has hijacked us, we are literally chipping away at the old self. And when we chip away at that old self, there's a new self that starts to emerge.

Joanna : 16:19

Now, when you brought up the whole thing about safety and the fact that our brains are hard wired to keep us safe, the issue with that is everything that we truly want, everything only exists when we are willing to not only step outside of our comfort zone but to actually sit square in the complete unknown. If you are, think about any big thing that you want in your life. That takes tremendous courage to go for that thing. You have to be sitting here right now not knowing where your actions are going to go. You take an action. You hope your action takes your life in the direction that you want it to go, but anybody that has built anything that they're really proud of I'm sure you can relate to this, audra.

Joanna : 17:16

There have been so many actions that have not gone the way that we've wanted them to go Right.

Joanna : 17:24

Yes, I mean, I can't even count how many failures I've had, how many things didn't go the way that I wanted in building my business, how many times I was not picked for keynote speaking engagements or not picked to do a TED talk. Or had I not had this work Number one I would have quit a long time ago. Number two I wouldn't be able to be in really just the awe of my life, like just being so grateful for the life that I have now, because my mind would be focused on where I'm not enough and what I need to fix and what I need to change and where I need to get to. I think that's really the very thing that's holding so many of us back and not only holding us back and not to bring politics or anything into this but that's really the breeding ground for hate. It's the breeding ground for feeling like we're separate from other people. It's the greeting ground for judgment, because if we're so judgmental and critical of ourselves, then guess what? We are judgmental and critical of others.

Audra: 18:48

Especially someone that maybe looks different than us or thinks different than us or feels different than us. That's right. As I said before, the mind is wired to go towards things that are the same as them. That they know. That's right. You're telling me it's the secular fear which you're saying you have made a bunch of mistakes, you've had your own fears. It's remarkable because if anybody actually takes a look at your resume, you are a global speaker. You have been a regular correspondent on this subject on Good Morning America. You are spoken to as an expert worldwide. You're telling me that you, who have a very large, wide audience, even you have the same fears and insecurities that I do.

Joanna : 19:50

That is precisely why I created all of this work. I will tell you that I started on my own personal transformation journey when I was 19 years old. It's really what led me to become a psychotherapist. For many years I had a private practice and people would get results from coming to see me. The reason why I really created the mind method is because I found that when I was in private practice, people just wanted to fix the situation. They believed that whatever situation they came to me to resolve, that would be the answer. It wasn't the answer. It wasn't the answer for me. It's not the answer for any of us.

Joanna : 20:40

We cannot get the experience of our life by continuing to chase external circumstances and believing that that's the thing that's going to fulfill us. It just doesn't work. That automatic mind never leaves us. Most people believe well, once I fix those thoughts, I've got to just silence those thoughts. We can't, we can't. But when we can learn exactly what it is and when we can really see, wait a minute, that's not me. I'm actually separate from her. I have people in my Mastering your Mind program naming their inner critic and really experiencing that this other self that they've mistaken for their true self is actually a completely separate self, and that is a game changer.

Audra: 21:42

Tell us a little bit more about this mind method of unhooking ourselves from this automatic mind, this anchor, this prison I don't know how else to describe it that is really holding us captive. Yes, yeah.

Joanna : 21:59

And okay. So I'll tell you about the mind method, and it is. The MIND is an anachronim. But I will also say that this is a practice that is practiced for the rest of your life. It's not do these four steps and then you're fixed, and then you'll never have to deal with anything ever again. It is a method that teaches you a very different way of thinking, that over time rewires those neural pathways, but it takes ongoing practice. So the M-step is meet your inner critic. That's the very first step. That's where you get intimately familiar with the thoughts and beliefs of this inner critic why does it sound like that's the scariest one?

Joanna : 22:48

Nope, nope, not, I'll keep going and then you'll tell me which is the scariest. So the I-step is investigate the indication signs that your inner critic has taken over your mind. I call those the blinking red warning lights. So those are the emotions, the body sensations and the behaviors that alert you that you're in your inner critic. So those times where you want to send off a nasty email or you just you know, you get home and you're like I am crawling into bed with a pineaben and Jerry's and Netflix, you know, not that there's anything wrong with that, but sometimes if we're using it to numb ourselves, so getting really intimately familiar with those deep triggers and the people that can trigger us, I mean, I'll just give you an example. This is again a benign example, but let's say you come home and your partner didn't unload the dishwasher and you freak out. You're not freaking out because your partner didn't unload the dishwasher, although that would have been nice and it's frustrating. The real freak out is this subconscious dialogue. If my partner cared more about me, you know, I asked them to unload the dishwasher and they didn't listen to me. And if they cared more about me, right. And we don't even realize that's underneath the surface. So the freak out towards our partner, towards our child, towards our boss. That's an indication sign that there's something else at work. So that's the I step. The end step is neutralize the never ending message of our inner critics. So that is the core wound and we, every human being, has core wounds. It doesn't matter if you think you had a perfect childhood. Every human being has some version of a core wound. When you really understand what your core wounds are, you understand how they are playing out in your life right now, like right now in that promotion, right now when your partner doesn't unload the dishwasher or everything in between.

Joanna : 25:04

The D step is design your life. And designing your life is about using the steps of the M and the I and the N to again really see what's going on in that subconscious mind, so that really it takes like 30 seconds or less, several seconds. When you see her, you know exactly what's going on. It takes seconds to unhook yourself and to literally plug yourself into an entirely different thought about the fact that your partner didn't unload the dishwasher, or you didn't get that promotion or whatever else is going on, and when you have a different thought about that, you are not reacting, now you're responding. So there's a big difference with by responding to your partner while still being connected. You know you can respond with love and connection but still address the dishwasher as opposed to the freak out that does a lot more damage to your relationship, you see.

Joanna : 26:18

So designing your life is how are you going to intentionally think from a fundamentally different place? How are you going to start to think and feel and act in alignment with what is your bigger vision? You could have a bigger vision for your business. You could have a bigger vision for your relationships. You could have a bigger vision for your health. You could have a bigger vision for every important area of your life. But so when you align your thoughts, your feelings and your actions with that bit, with that different vision, that, step by step by step, is how your life starts being designed in a different way.

Audra: 27:05

Okay, so I take that back. M is not the scariest one, d is D.

Joanna : 27:12

Yeah, I mean I, you know and listen. Some people say, some people say N right, the never ending message is the scariest because they're having to really lean into their core wounds. Some people are saying the I step is the scariest because they're having to really dig into the behaviors and take radical responsibility for the behaviors that they've been engaged in. So I guess it just depends. It depends and here's the thing I want to say something about scary, are these things uncomfortable to look at when we've spent our whole lives avoiding this Absolutely.

Joanna : 27:47

But the willingness to turn towards these thoughts, these beliefs, these emotions, these behaviors, that creates a level of fear, freedom that is indescribable, because now you're not waking up into the same cyclical life, same thoughts, same emotions, same behaviors that create the same results. Now you actually have the power to radically transform the life that you're living and what I can tell you from personal experience and from the hundreds of people that I've worked with, is that you end up designing a life that so far surpasses anything that you could ever imagine in your mind, because you're taking very different actions and any vision that we could even conjure up in our minds. Really, the reality far exceeds that.

Audra: 28:55

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Audra: 30:06

The unknown, it's the what if, what if. What if, what if?

Joanna : 30:11

Yes. So I'm so glad that you said that, because the what if? Worst case scenarios is what our inner critic mind is conditioned to turn towards. But there's this whole other world called what if? What if I make seven figures in my business this year? Like what would that be? Like what if I could really completely transform my relationship with my partner? What if, at 53, I could get into the healthiest shape of my life? So when we start actually right, it's just a three-second shift to that what if. But that what if gets us excited, gets us energized, gets us motivated. That's a perfect example of the difference between living in your conditioned automatic self versus seeing it unhooking and then plugging yourself into what's possible, because that changes everything which is so much more exciting and so much more fun to deal with.

Audra: 31:27

Oh my gosh. As I told everybody at the beginning, I don't do this and just say prescribe this and say you shall do this without me doing it myself. So before we started recording, I did an assessment. So Joanna has a free inner critic assessment for all of you. I will make sure that that link is in the show notes, but if you're writing things down right now, write this down. It's the innercriticassessmentcom. Write that down and take this later. I promise you you will not regret it and it's really interesting. So I took it before we started recording and got on air. Yes, and super interesting.

Audra: 32:17

So my assessments are that I'm 100 percent restless. I'm 75 percent feel inadequate. I am 100 percent perfectionist. I'm sure that some of the audience is going yeah, we already knew that about you, audra. I'm 100 percent guilty, which means I feel guilty about things that aren't even mine, and I am 50 percent a victim. Now I don't think what I am experiencing or what my results are are really all that different than a lot of the women that I know. Yes, because I know a lot of women that are extremely high achievers. That and I've told this secret out there many, many times. The reason why people and I can only speak for women and myself, the reason why we are higher achievers, is because we never feel good enough. Yes, that's why we're always chasing the next level, because the level that we achieve doesn't feel like it's enough.

Joanna : 33:19

Yes.

Audra: 33:21

So I'm speaking for myself, but I also know a lot of women just like me, yes, so I'm not suggesting that we completely digest and do an autopsy of my entire assessment results. Pick one that we could discuss and maybe help some of the audience members that are hearing it going. Oh yeah, I can relate to that, so let's start. Pick one you think is your favorite.

Joanna : 33:48

Yeah, Well, I think we should pick the perfectionist, because that right, I think this idea of chasing the next level would be a really good place for us to dissect. I think that's perfect Because it's very common right. And again, when I was in my automatic inner critic mind, that was mine too.

Joanna : 34:12

Yeah, I mean good company then, yeah, so I know all about it. I know all about it. Ok, we'll start there. Ok, so there is nothing wrong and everything right about wanting to reach for the next goal. I mean, really that's like a really exciting life to keep reaching for the next level and reaching for the next level and reaching for the next level. But if your inner critic is the one that's governing the reach, you are constantly in this place of chronic dissatisfaction, chronic lack of fulfillment, chronic lack of joy, because what you're really doing is you're looking out onto your life and looking for the arrival point. Ok, so it's like standing on the water's edge and looking at the horizon and saying you know what? I'm going to swim to the horizon and you can swim till the cows come home. You're never getting to the horizon.

Joanna : 35:22

Now, when we intentionally, instead of looking at where we're going, when we actually look back and we intentionally celebrate how much we've accomplished from where we began, and we actually that's one of the exercises that I have my participants do is write down 50 accomplishments.

Joanna : 35:47

They have to write down 50 accomplishments, even the tiniest little things.

Joanna : 35:51

I learned to ride a bike when I was eight.

Joanna : 35:55

When we start looking at all of our accomplishments, what starts to happen is that we blow our own minds because we look at where we started and how far we've come. And now, when we reach for the next level and we're taking that next action, what we're in touch with is being really proud of ourselves, being in touch with our own power, being in touch with how much we've transformed and how much we've grown, and that we are not the same humans that we were even. You know, for me, I feel like I'm not the same human I was six months ago and the thing that has us continue to transform is that reach. But when you're reaching, not because you need to get to that next level, because your inner critic needs you to get to that next level. You're reaching because you're so excited about what's possible and you're so excited about the life that you've already created for yourself right now that you no longer need that next level to be fulfilled, to be present to gratitude and abundance and joy and peace and freedom.

Joanna : 37:15

And that has you looking at everything differently In other words you don't need these people to think you're fabulous, you already know you're fabulous.

Joanna : 37:26

So if you come across somebody because, listen, we're always going to come across somebody that doesn't think we're fabulous we're always going to come across somebody that judges us for something and we can stop being so concerned about disappointing other people. You talked about your guilty inner critic. The guilty inner critic is always focused on preventing wanting to disappoint somebody, which absolutely holds us back because we have no control over other people's thoughts about us. We have no control over whether we're disappointed. We can set our own boundaries. Everybody's disappointed. That's not about us, that's about them.

Audra: 38:10

The whole new learning cycle, and I don't think I'm the only one in this, but when I go to write down the things that I've accomplished, I get this weird amnesia, like the things that I did I completely forget about, until somebody reminds me about it and I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I did do that. I don't know what that is, but I do it all the time, in every single aspect of my life. I'm sure, as from your professional point of view, you know exactly why I'm doing it.

Joanna : 38:42

Yeah, because our inner critic is conditioned to discount or minimize those accomplishments. And why is that? Because she is only focused on where we need to get to. So yesterday's win is short lived. It's really the way our inner critic looks at yesterday's win is it's just a stepping stone. And then life becomes a series of stepping stones to get to the next, to get to the next, to get to the next, and that's where we'll never get to that horizon.

Joanna : 39:23

That's the I mean just that fundamental shift alone to stop having your wins and your accomplishments simply be stepping stones, but to really learn not just to celebrate them but to write them down, to get into the habit of recording, even taking the last hour of your day and saying what are three wins that I had today? Again, could be minor, my partner pissed me off and I was able to let it go. You know, I mean it could be something really small, but when we start getting into the intentional habit of looking for that, it just changes our experience of everything and particularly changes our experience of who we are.

Audra: 40:15

So we're going to start developing, and we'll do it together, because I'm volunteering myself as tribute to gear towards my true, authentic self, rather than this poor autopilot that's running constantly, that's right. Will that ever be something that starts automatically, or will I always have to check myself and go who is this really? Is this really me, or is that scared little girl that doesn't know where, anything, what's coming next? So will I always have to have that deliberate thought?

Joanna : 40:58

Yeah, so this is a muscle just like any other muscle, and when you've been operating on autopilot, your inner critic muscles are incredibly overdeveloped and the muscles of your authentic self are completely underdeveloped. Let's think about this Somebody that's addicted to McDonald's their whole life and then, all of a sudden, they start changing how they eat and changing their right, and now, 10 years later, the thing that motivates them right, they don't have to think about, don't eat McDonald's. Today they're choosing better food because the intrinsic motivation that really comes automatically is I feel so good when I right, I used to feel like shit. I feel so good when I make these choices. Mcdonald's doesn't even appear as food anymore. After years and years of like, you would never go back to McDonald's. It's the same thing.

Joanna : 42:05

So when you build this muscle over time, what you get used to is the experience of waking up into joy and having a life of peace, and so you naturally start disappointing people right by saying no, because you're so focused on you're right. This is the life I'm living now. I already am this person. I'm living that life now where I'm my most important, not at the sacrifice of other people, but I pay attention to me first. I pay attention to the fundamental things that I need in my life. So I'll give you an example Like, one of the things that I'm incredibly focused on, I think more than anything, is fun and connection. So if I were in my perfectionist, inner critic mind, I'd be very focused on work and results. I've gotten to the point in my life where I plan the fun and the connection first and then I plan my work around the fun and connection. That's the most important thing to me.

Joanna : 43:13

And so there are a lot of people that get to the end of their life and they have the money and they have the success and they have the title and they have everything that they set out to accomplish.

Joanna : 43:24

But they look back and they say, you know, like boy, I wish I had more fun, I wish I spent more time with the people that I love the most. You know, when you are operating from a very different mind that lives in a different region of your brain, you start seeing things very differently. You start like really understanding what truly constitutes the quality of your life and that's what you start paying attention to. Now the success is still there, you still get to reach for your goals and you still. But what's front and center is you're just really conscious of the life that you're designing. And here's the thing, audra, that most people, I think, don't understand Success comes from joy. It's not the other way around. Joy doesn't come from success. You create your own success when you are waking up every day into a life of joy and peace and freedom and ease and flow, and that can only come from really using an intentional mind.

Audra: 44:34

Well, as you were speaking, there was two things that popped into my head that, of course, I've heard before, but these things you speaking of just is a reaffirmation of these things and a reminder of things. One is that it becomes choice rather than reaction. Yes, and then the second thing is a memory that I think I might have shared on my show before, but I will remind people again that when I was in high school and we were having all of our the seniors were having their pictures taken that most likely to this person doing that cutest couple. You know those pictures? Oh, yeah, I remember I was standing there with our teacher who was the advisor, because this was all for yearbook and, if you're listening, his name is Robert Kelly, and he's amazing, by the way, and we were standing there and he was.

Audra: 45:30

We were taking a photo of the two most likely to succeed, a male and a female. Yeah, just standing there. Yeah, doing nothing but standing there. Yeah, and a friend of mine piped up and said why are you just having them stand there? That's really boring. And Mr Kelly, who was so or is still so wise, said success is really boring, it's fulfillment. That is exciting.

Audra: 46:04

Ooh wow, good answer. Now, as a 17 year old kid, I thought I don't know what he's talking about. He is out of his mind. Success is where it's at Right. Right, you just explained that exactly what he said, yes, when I was 17,. You just used different words. That's right. It's fulfillment is where it's at Fulfillment and choice.

Joanna : 46:28

Absolutely, and that's why we see it's so sad in our world, so many millionaires and billionaires and actors right that kill themselves. They've gotten to the height of everything that they ever set out to do and they're still so miserable and they can't see a way out, and it's heartbreaking, right.

Audra: 46:57

Kate Spade, anthony Bourdain, and there's an entire list of individuals that you would never have thought. A heartbreak, yes, so we are going to definitely run out of time, but I did not want to end without the audience knowing where they can reach you and where they can find out more information. I've already given the web address for your giveaway that you're giving to everybody for free. I will make sure that that is in the show notes as a link. Please go, take it. It is well worthwhile. But where can they reach you to connect with you, find your books, that kind of thing, so they can learn more about this process?

Joanna : 47:34

Thank you so much. Yeah, so my book is called Dethroning your Inner Critic and you can find that on Amazon in the soft cover or you can listen to it on Audible, and then I have a podcast too, called Dethroning your Inner Critic. You can find that wherever you listen to podcasts. You can go to my website, dethroningyourinnercriticcom, and I'm on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok at dethroningyourinnercritic.

Audra: 48:13

I encourage you all to please go check her out. She's amazing. I've been able to spend a little bit of time with her and she's unbelievable. She's been so thoughtful and generous and really empathetic. So don't be afraid that she's gonna think that you're weird, because this is her bread and butter, this is her joy, this is her passion.

Joanna : 48:35

So please go do that, sure for sure. It's been a pleasure to be here today, audra, thank you so much for having me.

Audra: 48:42

You're welcome and actually we have reached that. One part of the show that is my absolute favorite has become my favorite part of the show where I get to step back from the audience or step back from the mic and you get to have an intimate moment directly with the audience without me interrupting. So Mike's yours.

Joanna : 49:01

Oh, okay, Well, what do I wanna say? I guess the most important thing that I wanna share with everybody is nobody escapes this. So anybody that you think doesn't have an inner critic self, they do. Okay, it doesn't matter how successful you are, how rich you are, whatever, wherever you are in your life, please know that you have the power to be able to transform the way that you see yourself, the way that you live your life and the results that you can produce for yourself and the future that will unfold in front of you.

Audra: 49:39

Thank you so much, joanna. I love that you've encouraged everybody that we're all in the same boat. Same boat Yep. Yes, don't think that you're different. Everybody's dealing with this Yep, so go find it, go dig for it. Like I said, I volunteer myself as tribute, so I'm going to do the same. So I will report back later.

Joanna : 50:00

Yeah, oh, that's great, that's great.

Audra: 50:02

Joanna, thank you so much for being here and being so generous with your time and your information and your research. I cannot thank you enough. You're so welcome, my pleasure and I want to thank all of you for listening and we'll see you again next time.