Elizabeth Rowe is a lot of things, talented, intelligent, performer and an unexpected social justice advocate. As the principle flutist with the Boston Symphony, she performs at the highest levels all over the world; however, she was not paid the same as her male counterparts. Elizabeth made the gut wrenching decision to file a lawsuit against her employer because it was simply something she could not ignore. In the middle of what was the most difficult season of her life, a surprising passion ignited in her that had nothing to do with music. She discovered her voice and a passion to assist others in their own personal journeys. What started out as the worst thing imaginable turned out to be one of the greatest gifts of her life.
https://iamelizabethrowe.com/
Go check out all of our episodes on our website: https://womeninthearena.net/
If you are ready to tell your story or want to refer someone, please email me at audra@womeninthearena.net
***Last thing- I'd love to interview the following women:
Maybe you can help me get there****
Thank you all for supporting this show and all of the Women in the Arena!!
Elizabeth Rowe is a lot of things, talented, intelligent, performer and an unexpected social justice advocate. As the principle flutist with the Boston Symphony, she performs at the highest levels all over the world; however, she was not paid the same as her male counterparts. Elizabeth made the gut wrenching decision to file a lawsuit against her employer because it was simply something she could not ignore. In the middle of what was the most difficult season of her life, a surprising passion ignited in her that had nothing to do with music. She discovered her voice and a passion to assist others in their own personal journeys. What started out as the worst thing imaginable turned out to be one of the greatest gifts of her life.
https://iamelizabethrowe.com/
Go check out all of our episodes on our website: https://womeninthearena.net/
If you are ready to tell your story or want to refer someone, please email me at audra@womeninthearena.net
***Last thing- I'd love to interview the following women:
Maybe you can help me get there****
Thank you all for supporting this show and all of the Women in the Arena!!
| Timestamp Speaker Transcript | | | |
| 00:00.00 Elizabeth Rowe Um | is when we get started if we dive into kind of the lawsuit and all of that there are There are some specifics that I can't go into and some that I can and I'm pretty good at kind of skirting around that and I actually can't really say. I cannot speak about that. But if you notice me kind of weaving into generalities that will be why but I'm pretty I'm pretty accustomed to that.
| 00:16.40 audraagen Um | Ok so what I thought we would do because I don't want this to be all about your lawsuit. What I want it I mean that is a great introduction to your. Evolution if you want if you want to put it that way but you started with this lawsuit and then what I what I always find so magical that most women that I know or that I have met that have been able to do they take something awful. And somehow find a way to dig through it and find some positive out of it and always use that as a launch pad into something else and that's what I think is the really important thing in the middle of that. Not that the lawsuit wasn't important but that was just the beginning of the story.
| 01:58.80 Elizabeth Rowe Da. | | | |
| 02:09.56 audraagen There's so much more that happened after that which I is just all that more fascinating but I'm going to use the lawsuit as a launching pad to get us into that conversation. So and and I'm sure that you get sick of talking about that lawsuit you're like can't it just go away already.
| 02:46.86 Elizabeth Rowe Perfect. | | | |
| 02:48.20 audraagen But you know it's It's It's how we start to tell your story and like I said that's not what I wanted to focus on because that's not the thing. The thing is how much growth you've had and how much you've learned and how much you've been able to share with. Everybody else and that's kind of the point of why we're here you know not to not to commiserate in our own bad look or whatever.
| 03:51.82 Elizabeth Rowe Love it. | | | |
| 04:09.98 Elizabeth Rowe That's wonderful. Yes | well because we have to look forward right? It's all about forward right? taking ah taking a step into the into the future and and doing what we can. Yep | that's right. | | | |
| 04:06.16 audraagen Into the unknown and the unknown is um | both terrifying and terrifying and exciting all at the same time. So I've at least I've learned to embrace that because I've had no choice. So.
| 04:51.18 Elizabeth Rowe I Love it. | | | |
| 04:41.80 audraagen Right? I'm gonna do an intro I will tell you that that is where I screw up the most is the intro because that's the only thing that's semi scripted. So let me get to my notes where I wanted to. Okay. And get there all right? So I'm going to count us down and let'll get us into it. Are you ready do have water. Okay | perfect all right ready by 4 3 2 None | | |
| 05:45.84 Elizabeth Rowe Perfect. Yes I do. | | |
| 05:51.78 audraagen Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me again this week this week I have yet another woman that has made an art out of turning the uncomfortable and the seemingly impossible into a remarkable opportunity. this week I am joined by Elizabeth Rowe and I have a list of accolades for you to just for you to listen to what this woman has accomplished. First of all | she is the principal float principal floutist flutist which do you prefer? Ok ok.
| 07:14.62 Elizabeth Rowe Either works I say flutus. | | |
| 07:08.72 audraagen She is the principal flutist for the boston symphony she is a Ted talk speaker. She also is a social justice advocate as well as she is the author of her landmark equal pay lawsuit. And the boston globe called her the bostonian of the year and nicknamed her the fighter it is my pleasure and my honor to introduce to you Elizabeth Row Elizabeth thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
| 08:33.46 Elizabeth Rowe Thank you so much for having me and for welcoming welcoming me into this community of incredible women.
| 08:31.74 audraagen You know this growing community has changed over the last two years and has expanded and flourished the None thing that hasn't changed is how much we want to celebrate each other and how much we want to come together to help. None another and to guide one another and to you know | have ah other women learn from our mistakes and and maybe teach them on what to avoid in in. In the future. It's been ah | an amazing experience and I'm so happy that you said yes to join us and share your experiences with us and your growth on your journey that was not so fun to but we'll we'll dive into it because we'll dive into the elephant in the room which is this this lawsuit and it it's an equal pay lawsuit and it was I want to say that it was one of the none of its kind and it was. Something that from when you and I spoke earlier. It was it was almost harder to do to do nothing than to stand up for yourself and say something that this isn't right? So Elizabeth. Let us know how you got. To that place of I need to do something and what transpired because of it.
| 11:51.36 Elizabeth Rowe Yeah | thank you for for this question and I think that you know whether it's a lawsuit or any other kind of dramatic moment in our lives. We often find ourselves at this crossroads where we have a couple of choices and. As you described for me I reached a point where I had a choice to kind of accept the status quo and accept my current circumstances which I had been working very very hard behind the scenes for many many years to try to correct to try to. Um | create a more equitable compensation situation for myself in my workplace and I reached a point where I had to make a choice between learning to live with that or taking a big step into really the unknown and I had to. With myself and ask myself you know neither of these choices feel particularly great. So which is the one that I feel like I can live with and which is the one that maybe I would really regret in retrospect now I want to say that. You know we make these kinds of choices without a crystal ball and without being able to look ahead into the future and I think for many folks and for many women | especially um | you know there can be a sense that um | there's only None right choice. And a crossroad like that and I think that it's really important to say that I made that particular choice that I made for myself and it has resulted in some really powerful shifts for me in my life and my career I also want to say that for plenty of folks and for plenty of women. You know they might reach a crossroad like that and make a different choice and that's equally valuable and equally. Powerful. So I think it's just important when we tell stories like this to kind of make room for the other choice as well. But for me | that's what I did.
| 15:20.58 audraagen And and and I'm sure because I'm trying to I'm trying to put myself mentally in the spot where you were in and I think a lot of us have been in similar spots and you had to do something really terrifying because None of all your musician musicians is a very. Small Knit community. It's There's only finite amount of of space of spaces and spots across the country and across the globe and you decided that I'm really going to step out because I I can't live with the decision to not do something. How terrified were you of I mean I Granted I realized that in your soul. You're just like there is no other choice for for you but I can't imagine that it was any less scary.
| 17:21.31 Elizabeth Rowe Oh absolutely not and I think that I mean just because we arrive at a certain place of clarity and which you know I I really believe that that all of us are capable of great acts of courage and that. To take that act to take that step. Whatever it might be and by a great act of courage. What I mean to say is is something anything that feels scary for us right? and unknown and that we I think the definition of courage is acting while being afraid right? It's not. Waiting to feel confident or waiting to be absolutely positively sure. It's going to work out but it's really it's taking that step while being afraid and if there were a scale of 1 to 10 of fear I think I was at you know 327 I was off the charts. Um | and I want to say too that it was for me as a performer. Um | part of what was so challenging was that you know I was getting up on stage every night and essentially demonstrating or at least from my point of view was demonstrating my my worth not just to myself and to my colleagues and to my employer but to. Audiences of none of people who were following this and reading about it in the newspapers and who were sort of passing their own judgments about you know who should be compensated in what way and so the demands as ah as a performing artist to get up and to to do that night after night were and they were at a level that I had. Not experienced before or really sense in my performing career I had a lot of training and skills that equipped me for that but it was at a really different level than I faced in the past.
| 20:23.78 audraagen I can't imagine because first of all is nerve raking to be a performer regardless but you're working for the company for lack of better words that you were currently involved in a lawsuit with. And you're standing in front of these audiences night after night basically having to reprove yourself every single night and that you are quote unquote worthy of the lawsuit. How awful I mean just how awful. Night after night having to prove that you're worthy of standing in that spot I just can't how how in the world. Did you manage that pressure.
| 22:09.86 Elizabeth Rowe And that's a great Question. You know part of it and what I'm so interested in in in so much of the work that I do now with with my coaching clients that I support is to is to challenge and question some of the the stories and assumptions that we make and so that certainly was the story I was telling myself was that I was. Having to prove my worth every single night and and part of I think if if I hadn't done some work in the moment to ah lessen the grip of that story I might not have made it through right? So part of what I had to do was to say to myself. Well maybe that is True. It's certainly how I perceive things. And also I believe and I know that there are people here who are listening for music just for music's sake. There are people here who are cheering me on and reading for me. It's all it's all the whole you know the audience the newspapers | the critics my colleagues all of that. It's a very. And Multidimensional kind of experience and so for me to kind of release some of that rigidity of that narrative that I had going in my head was very helpful and also I had to absolutely work to bring my focus to the work at hand to to not be thinking about things I couldn't control like.
| 24:21.00 audraagen Here. | | | |
| 24:38.40 Elizabeth Rowe What other people thought and to really focus in on what I could control which is how I performed and to me that's been a skill that I have used in all sorts of spaces in performance spaces and elsewhere is that distinction of you know | really getting clear about what you can control and what you can't and levering. Leveraging your efforts and your energy on what you can and really working as best as possible to release the stuff that you can't control which at that particular time felt like a mountain of stuff that I could not control.
| 25:19.78 audraagen I Just I can't imagine. But as as you're describing this what you did was you flipped that negative self talk on its ear and decided. Okay | there's all this here that I can't control. But if I. If I concentrate on that it's going to consume me and so you just decided to concentrate on the things that you loved about performing which I I think is an invaluable information because you could and and um | invaluable. Advice because you can take that same situation or that that same mindset and apply it to any situation. Ah | you know we don't all have to be on a stage and and play for audiences night after night | but we could be doing that in our personal life and our professional life. How often do we. Give this self-talk that may or may not be True. It may only be our perceptions on our head it may it could be a whole bunch of stuff. It could be that that whole imposter syndrome that we hate hearing about but we know it's real. Ah I Just I I'm imagining. You on that stage every night giving it the best you've got every single night even though you're under all that pressure. But then at the core of it you you took it and you played for the joy of playing and those that are. They're just to listen to music in the middle of all that chaos. What a beautiful sentiment to get yourself really really quiet and concentrate on the whole point of what brought you there to begin with.
| 29:09.80 Elizabeth Rowe Absolutely and to just take it down to an even more kind of foundational level. You know it's it's sometimes we just have to focus on you know | breathing it and breathing out and putting one foot literally in front of the other sometimes you know and so even to. To to take it down to its most elemental level and to say okay this is what I am trained to do this is what I know how to do if I can just gather my concentration and gather my focus and and and stay on track with what I know how to do it. It's ah it's a really powerful tool I think that we can all use when we are under duress whether it's in a meeting whether it's in a you know | contract negotiation whether it's in ah some sort of a performance or presentation that we can the distraction of all those thoughts and of all the people around us and if. Everything in the room that we can't control can overwhelm our minds and if we just bring our focus back routinely to our breath our body knowing what we know that we can do and just taking one step after the next. It's very reorienting and and and calming.
| 31:05.66 audraagen It sound from from that statement. It sounds like and I know that this is true but it it sounds like you took those very practices that you were doing and in the middle of this this horrible situation which turned out to be.. It had a good result. Obviously you found something in the middle of that and you had mentioned something to me when you and I None met on this this thought of profession versus passion and. What you said to me is that they aren't always the same and you found a passion in the middle of this So tell me a little bit about that and ah | how that happened I'm sure that that was a surprise to you because you've you've worked your entire life on this profession. And and obviously you wouldn't have done it if you didn't love it. But in the middle of this you went. Well maybe there's something else that is lighting my soul on fire.
| 33:32.20 Elizabeth Rowe Yeah I don't think there has ever been a more surprising moment in my professional life than what you are describing and you know I've had focused on being ah a musician and a performer since I was you know | really in middle school and certainly in high school and it really had never never looked. Away from that I had I was talking to somebody recently and I described it as if I sort of got on a moving sidewalk at the at the airport you know and it just kept going in that direction and I was very talented | very disciplined creative hardworking had all of the um. Skills and tools and privilege that it took to pursue a career like that and was very successful at a very early age and achieved this position in the boston symphony I won that audition when I was you know 29 and it's really one of maybe at most None equivalent positions in this country on my instrument.
| 34:29.38 audraagen And. | | | | |
| 35:24.16 Elizabeth Rowe And so it I basically reached the absolute pinnacle of my industry at that age and for most musicians to even dream of reaching a level like that is it's ah it's ah it's a moonshot and then to be there is it's. You know you feel overwhelmed with great fortune with privilege with responsibility with all of that and so I had spent most of my adult professional life either aspiring to that or being in that space and you know what happened over time is first of all I had reached the top. Um | and I had discovered that the top at least in my in this particular industry and I think in many industries um isn't what we think it is looking at it from the outside necessarily.
| 36:44.66 audraagen I Would agree with that that you work so hard and you get to the top and then you're like that's it This is it. This is the whole thing.
| 37:10.64 Elizabeth Rowe Who yeah or it may be right and sometimes it's is this the whole thing and sometimes it's wow that is a whole thing but it's a really different thing than I thought it was going to be and and and you know so I had this experience.
| 37:12.20 audraagen Um. | | | | |
| 37:41.92 Elizabeth Rowe Some of that and then I also had this really stark experience of recognizing that the top really wasn't the same for everyone and certainly not for me as a woman in my position. So but that as we talked about already led me to to file this lawsuit but in the in the course of this lawsuit which had gone. Public. It had gotten splashed all over the news all over you know the states Europe it was on Cnn and time magazine. It was just everywhere and the orchestra was on tour in Europe we were traveling around europe together performing in all of these very famous concert halls and. In front of all of these audiences and there was just a moment when a confluence of events happened around the lawsuit that just were very very difficult for me and I remember distinctly walking down the street I was in Vienna I was headed to this very very famous concert hall to play a concert and i. Felt like I was under just intense | emotional duress and I remember coming to a stop at the street corner and it was hot. It was in August I was carrying my instrument and it's like this lightning bolt almost struck and it sounds kind of cliche but it really was and. I stopped at the street corner and I thought to myself I don't have to do this like I just don't have to do this job I don't I can stop I can quit. That's okay and that that exact thought had never ever ever once crossed my mind ever as a professional human being and ever.
| 40:27.64 audraagen Ever. Not once. | | | |
| 40:52.14 Elizabeth Rowe Not once that was the None time those words entered my mind because I had been so privileged Successful lucky um and had and had just it just would never had never occurred to me that there was any other choice other than being in this very visible. Um | ah. Extremely prestigious position that I was in and so I stood there and it's like almost as if this sort of window in my brain opened up or this door in my mind opened up and then there was this whole other. Universe of possibilities because the next question is once I was like well I don't have to do this and the next question is well. But then what am I going to do and it's I will tell you it's not as if another like bolt of lightning struck me and I was like oh aha this is what I shall do and and also I.
| 42:12.24 audraagen Ah | well that was handy I got that I got the question and the answer. Yeah I don't think it ever happens that way.
| 42:38.66 Elizabeth Rowe All it was ah and so I What what? So You know that was a number of years ago I am still employed by the Boston Symphony but but what happened at that Time. So I didn't quit and but what happened was that was the beginning of a long exploration of me. Ah | pursuing inquiries and questions around what is it that I Actually what is my what is my passion.. What is my calling is it what I've been doing this whole time is being really good at something is being the best whatever that means at something does that mean that it's. Your calling does that mean that it's your passion and is it possible to have multiple callings or passions and you know what's this rule. It's like the Prince charming rule right? like So So that day was the beginning of this big exploration for me and I hired a coach. I just started to dig around and start to question and I think that that was just the power of asking that very None primary question is what set me on a completely different path and it's something that would never have happened I don't believe or would have not happened for many many more years I believe had I not been. In the middle of that lawsuit and pushed as hard as I was and that in that circumstance.
| 45:02.40 audraagen So how old were you if you can recall when you had that moment of oh you know is it is this what I'm supposed to do.
| 45:34.36 Elizabeth Rowe Um | I yeah I think I will so I'm 48 now um so I must have been I have to do the math 44 45 yeah
| 45:44.72 audraagen Okay | so you know you weren't you weren't in in your thirty s where your thirty s are are very weird confusing time because you know they've told you that you're an adult and you're like you're like ok I guess I'm a real adult now. And you're trying to do all | you're trying to do the right thing all the time and in your 40 s and you're right you you were ah a little bit early but not by much of almost without exception. Every woman that I have spoken to that starts to hit mid 40 s mid 40 s late late forty s early 50 s suddenly has this moment of oh you know is this is this what I want to do or where am i. I've been buried under all of this expectation and responsibility and all of this this stuff on top of me whether it whether you placed it on yourself or it was placed upon you | you'd been carrying it all this time. And like said somewhere in that age we get tired and tired and we're tired of carrying it and we're also so we're also tired of staying in our own lane or what the expected lane is and for you you had mentioned the responsibility. And I'm sure that that was part of it that drove you because you were a very young principal musician female and I'm sure that the responsibility was completely overwhelming and it's something that probably didn't leave your mind very often. It. It's probably was always in the back of your mind. Um | but when you finally thought ok what happens when I put myself none it opens up this strange new world of possibilities and I don't know how it affected you but for me. It was so overwhelming. You don't know where to start you just know that you can't go back. So how how was that experience for you in the middle of this in the midst of this and and you're trying to figure out ok is this really my voice or do I have a different voice do I have something to say. Um | do I have something else to give I just I I find that fascinating because everybody's story is different but it all starts the same something triggered it and we stand back and go what what have we done.
| 51:34.40 Elizabeth Rowe Well I think it's It's such a big question and a great question and I think what's really underneath all of that. It's not even where am I It's really who am I and that's ah | that's a big and hard question and I think. | |
| 51:38.80 audraagen Yeah. | | | |
| 52:12.22 Elizabeth Rowe Oftentimes We're busy doing live for so Long. We're busy. You know | kind of launching careers and you know if we are starting Families. We're starting families if we are you know we're kind of in that early phase of our professional lives and there's often not especially if we've achieved a fair amount of success early.. There's often. Not. And opportunity to slow down and say who am I right? I know what I've accomplished I know what my goals are I know all of that. But who am I and so I think that you're absolutely right? that? Um | once we open up that question and start to explore. It can feel overwhelming because it's it's like. Am I a philanthropist am I a public speaker am I a teacher am I an artist what does being an artist mean am I a leader am I a like what the heck am I and right and and so I think there's it can be overwhelming and what really helped me what is.
| 53:34.24 audraagen Yeah. | | | |
| 54:05.60 Elizabeth Rowe Ah | tool that I have used many many times with myself and with my with my clients and I return to over and over again is this question of kind of looking back over the totality of your either your your life but certainly your professional life your adult life and looking to what. Really energizes you which is a very different question from what you're good at what you're being paid for um | what your skill set is and what you think you are but to look to what energizes you and. When I started to explore that for myself I was able to look back through my professional life and notice that I had for years decades really been in conversation with peers students colleagues. That went far beyond my capacity as an artist or as a flutist these might have even been flute students of mine who would come to me not because they wanted to learn how to play a particular passage but because they were struggling with a choice they were about to make. Or they were struggling with identity or confidence or trying to decide and you know what? how they wanted to define success for themselves and so when I started to look back and think about what where I had derived the most energy the most satisfaction the most. Sense of meaning and purpose in my work I assumed it was going to be on stage and what I do on stage is meaningful and there is purpose to it and it does serve a really important you know purpose in the world and yet for me speaking just from my own lived experience. It was these conversations that. Was where I found my that that lit me up right? That made my heart full and so when I started to get really clear on that which you know again | it wasn't the lightning bolt that like struck on the other side of the street in Vienna took a while but once I started to get clear on that then it's then it.
| 57:51.62 audraagen You. | | | | |
| 58:22.90 Elizabeth Rowe Helped me really decide what I wanted to create and build and shape and where I wanted to deepen my skills and my knowledge and what I wanted to pursue which is what has ultimately led me to my work that I do as a high performance and leadership coach where I work with people who aren't just musicians and artists and creatives. But who are In. You know all sorts of different industries and it it is so powerfully energizing to me and meaningful and full of purpose that I feel just immensely lucky that I'm able to to do that work and that I found that for myself.
| 59:07.34 audraagen What and as I had said in the beginning. What I find remarkable is that you took None of the lowest points in your life because it was awful. It was gut wrenching. It probably felt like it was you were going through a divorce. Um I mean I can't imagine. But you took that and found purpose in the middle of it which is such a special gift that I think most women have that they can go through this horrible awful terrible experience. But then dig through it and find purpose and meaning in the middle of it. And you've taken that and decided well I'm going to help other people reach the same thing so who who are your clients or the audience that you're trying to reach predominantly in that practice.
| 01:01:13.30 Elizabeth Rowe Yeah | so most of the time most of the folks that I work with are high achieving professionals and I who are either struggling to really thrive in a demanding work environment which I think many of us have certainly experienced that.
| 01:01:10.80 audraagen Yeah. | | | |
| 01:01:24.78 audraagen Um | yeah | oh yeah | oh yeah. | | |
| 01:01:50.14 Elizabeth Rowe Um | or or who who are working to kind of successfully navigate either a career or personal transition. So there's so many qualities that are in common with with high achieving professionals in demanding work environments I mean that sums it up right? there right? There's there's a lot and I think that you know.
| 01:02:00.10 audraagen You know. | | | |
| 01:02:29.20 Elizabeth Rowe Some of the qualities that really help me and that I that I try to strengthen in myself and that I help my clients really so work to strengthen in in themselves as they work through these circumstances that they're in or these transitions that they're going through is and you know when you talk about. Finding purpose or finding meaning from a very very low point and so many of us face low points for all sorts of reasons and many low points in the course of our lives and our careers and I find that especially for highachieving driven folks. You know we really focused on the outcome like where do I need to go from here. How can I make this productive. How can I make this a learning experience. How can I like maximize my potential through this difficult thing and I find that a key None step and something that many of us skip over is. The very None step which is self-compassion and I think oftentimes for driven folks. We just like skip right on over that we're like self-compassion is for other folks | right? but. | | | | |
| 01:04:11.32 audraagen Rath. | | | |
| 01:04:21.00 audraagen I You know what I don't even know if I learned about self-compassion and until the last couple years because I didn't have any choice because you know we were all locked down and all I had was me and my family I'd no longer had. Flying all over the country to distract me and I I Hate to admit it that was the None time I'd ever heard of self-compassion because I didn't think that was a thing.
| 01:05:18.92 Elizabeth Rowe Yeah. | | | |
| 01:05:38.74 Elizabeth Rowe Yeah | a lot of us. Don't think it's a thing or if we think it's a thing we think it's a thing for other people and you know and really if back to me standing on that street corner in Vienna if if my None instinct when I had reached that really low point was to was to beat up on myself about it if I had been like.
| 01:05:31.82 audraagen Yeah | yeah. | | | | |
| 01:06:18.40 Elizabeth Rowe How could you have let this happen. Why did you make such a dumb choice like what are you doing here. This is a disaster you've created this huge mess like you know what? a you know? what? a what a like failure you are right? That's like how harsh a lot of our voices can be in our own heads and that wasn't my voice. To myself I had developed some self-compassion skills over I think many many years as a performer where you know we make mistakes in public all the time we fall down and pick ourselves up all the time and if we beat ourselves up aggressively every time we do that it. It It actually wears you down to the point that you just can't get back up on stage right? So you have to or at least I have had to develop those skills of self-compassion and that's I think what then unlocks the curiosity the the ability to kind of look around and say well. What else is there? What could there be? what's going on here. What. Who am I What do I want all those big big questions that then brings us to achieve some clarity and then then that's where we can take that last step which is that courageous step which is to move in that direction. Whatever that is right? So for me | it's the compassion. The curiosity. Clarity and then the courage that combined really helped have helped me and and I think help a lot of my clients kind of move through these challenging situations that they face and that they're in.
| 01:08:52.82 audraagen Well | you are describing what? Ah how I refer to and in the same way that I refer to myself as a recovering type a personality and because you know it's you really are learning a new way of life.
| 01:09:28.40 Elizabeth Rowe Specific. | | | |
| 01:09:29.84 audraagen Um | much like you described I would start with the end goal in mind and and work my way backwards and create a plan on on all the steps to get there. It's how I lived my entire life without bending and I was miserable. Absolutely miserable. And are these so I'm the reason why I ask this question or I'm posing this in such a way is because I'm wondering how many people come to you in the same state that they've they've accomplished all these the stuff they've had all these goals they have all the the. Awards on the walls and that kind of thing but they're miserable and they come to you and go. Ah I don't know how to fix this I don't know what to do now this is this is all I know how to do and so how many of them come to you and say Elizabeth help I have ah. I don't know what's wrong with me fix me.
| 01:11:41.52 Elizabeth Rowe Ah | fix me yes | ah right | don't you all wish we could just go somewhere and and say fix me and have someone say I know exactly what to do? Yes | that's right? Yes | welcome to the 1950 s right there we go again right? Yes | but.
| 01:11:40.70 audraagen Take this this little blue pill and you'll be great in the morning. Yeah | that would be lovely doesn't exist. Yeah | exactly. | | | |
| 01:12:20.84 Elizabeth Rowe And yes | absolutely what you're describing is is so common and I think that it can be None of the things that is I think incredibly important and empowering you know this really stems from the. The me too movement right? which is is not about what you and I are talking about. But what is premised on the idea that when someone can share their own difficult experience their own challenges their own whether it's harassment in the workplace whether it's having risen to the top and somehow. Not feeling the way they thought they should feel right or not deriving the satisfaction that they wished that they could from it None of the the most toxic and difficult aspects of that is feeling like you're completely alone and unique in that experience because when we feel like we're the only None experiencing it. The next logical conclusion is that we did something ourselves to create this right that we are responsible for this and that there's some something shameful about it and when this is the power of the metoo movement right? when one person can say this happens to me and someone else can say you know that or something similar happens to me to that.
| 01:14:19.40 audraagen Oh. | | | |
| 01:14:41.34 Elizabeth Rowe Moment of empathy and it doesn't have to be an identical experience. It doesn't have to be you know at the same scale or anything but that that moment of empathy is it is Empowering. It is freeing. It's just like this weight lifts and for me. Speak from a lot of experience with this specifically because during the course of my earlier career as ah as a performer as a woman in a very male dominatated industry at least at the very highest levels and I had I really felt like I was an only and I had developed a. Ah | really strong narrative for myself that nobody could understand what I was going through nobody really knew what it's like to be a performer and a woman in this situation and and yeah | my industry is pretty esoteric and there's some you know there are details that you know are but that's true for absolutely every industry that's out there. And what another really unexpected benefit from this lawsuit is that I So many people reached out to me from all walks of life all industries all over the world and they either said I see you I Thank you? This is inspiring or they said some version of me too. And I was able to receive this immense amount of support and connection with folks that I never imagined that I would have had anything in common with before and it was an incredibly empowering ah empowering and important lesson for me to learn and so I think that what is equally important is for all of these highachchieving professionals out there who. Are not thriving who are struggling who are bumping up against hard things whether it's workplace environment or their own feelings about the work that they do or their sense of identity or confidence all of those things is to is to say Yes | Absolutely This is so common it just is and. You're not alone. This is not unique to you and there's nothing broken or wrong about you and there are skills and tools and opportunities to make your life better and to also to to connect with others who are going to help which is you know precisely what you're doing here with this podcast right? is.
| 01:18:41.16 audraagen Um | yeah | yes | yeah | the whole point is to connect and what you're describing I think was magnified by everybody.
| 01:19:02.74 Elizabeth Rowe Making that possible right? So that we don't feel so isolated and alone in our experiences.
| 01:19:18.98 audraagen Being locked down for the last couple years and then as we've emerged we've emerged weird you know it's like we. It's like we've forgotten social graces and and how to interact with anybody that we're not related to or that we didn't didn't hunker down with or whatever the case may be ah we're awkward. We've come out awkward and you know we're a bunch of we're a bunch of freshmen in high school again being awkward with other people. But you're you're saying you know you're not alone. Let me let me help walk you through this. We're all awkward right now every single. 1 of us is completely weird. Um | but we're doing it together and I'm curious as through your practice and you've been doing this through stuff for several years. What's your favorite story that you can share with us with None of your clients that. May have come to you and said fix me what's wrong with me I'm broken I don't know what I did I don't have lost my focus fix my focus or whatever it was and this person emerged on the other side a completely different person. But so much more fulfilled.
| 01:22:03.46 Elizabeth Rowe Oh that's such a great question and and you know as you were speaking I I had None particular client leap to mind and who works in the creative fields and um was. Tied up in knots because they were wanting to create a project and actually commission some some work from another artist and they had built up this incredible narrative about how they weren't um | important enough to make this commission. They weren't. Ah | skilled enough. They didn't have enough knowledge to create this commission and then there was this fear around. Well what if I if I make this commission and it's not what I envisioned or it's not It's not good enough. Is it. There's this huge bundle of fear and of. Questions about status and standing and who am I and you know all of this and they just were paralyzed and could not take a step forward absolutely could not take a step forward and after working together for some time we ended up being able to shift that completely on its on its head and instead of saying you know who am I to commission this. Famous artist to do this thing. We were actually able to again reorient around the meaning in in this and the purpose in this and for this particular client of mine they had experienced some mental health challenges earlier in their in their adult life and. What they ended up deciding to do was rather than make a just general project about you know | creating art in the world or they decided that they were going to focus it on this specific mental health experience and they were going to intentionally go out and solicit folks to. Who had some personal connection to that themselves and so that there was this going to be this shared humanity in the project and so that they actually could take the lead by creating the context for the work for um. Making it personal in this way for giving it depth and for actually attracting the kind of collaborator that they were looking for instead of coming from this place of feeling like ill-equipped less than um | not fancy enough. Not famous enough. You know | whatever that might be so it's it's. I think there's so much power when we can actually tune in to what drives us right? and that for for this particular client of mine to be able to find that I mean the look on her face when that when those pieces came together in her mind and it it moved from being this kind of scary.
| 01:27:16.80 Elizabeth Rowe Burdensome thing that she was trying to do because she thought she should to this this like I mean she just lit up talk about being energized I mean she just flew out of that session like on fire ready to go create something important and meaningful and substantive out in the world and not caring the least about how fancy she was or wasn't. And what her credentials were or weren't and driven by her her passion and her purpose and it was It was just an absolute joy to see her arrive at that.
| 01:27:53.16 audraagen Um | what was the result of her project I bet it was wildly successful. |
| 01:28:24.70 Elizabeth Rowe Wildly. Successful. And also you know it doesn't in a sense it kind of didn't matter because you know whether it had been on. Ah ah like a huge scale success or something on a more personal intimate level of success or visibility. The meaning was in the process. It was in the shared collaboration. It was in There was so much there to to derive meaning from and purpose from and I think that's also one of the things that we can look for in our all of our workplace environments right? is that if the process itself that we're engaged in if. If the process towards working towards our goal or towards achieving the outcome if we can find and create value. Um worthiness integrity meaning in the process then whatever the outcome might be that's only None piece of the. The puzzle right? and we can look to that whole process and and find our sense of of um | kind of substance and and success there as much as we do in the in the outcome.
| 01:30:11.28 audraagen Um | you're doing tremendous work I I don't know if you realize this but you are amongst ah um | those of us that aspire to be world changers because you are changing the world. You're just changing the world None person at a time same thing that I'm doing I'm changing the world None person at a time None interview at a time. Um because I do believe that one person can change the world but what it really is is a bunch of individuals trying to invest in None one other individual and then it spreads so I don't know if you even realize that you are in. A very elite group of world changers.
| 01:31:48.58 Elizabeth Rowe Well thank you for saying that and I you know I Really do believe in the power of of an individual story and it doesn't have to be a big fancy story either right? and that I think there's it's again back to that that empathy that that seeing a bit of ourselves. Someone else seeing a bit of what's possible for ourselves and someone else or just recognizing that. Um | that kind of shared humanity really is what is what gives us strength to kind of keep going if we can learn to see it and tap into it and sometimes we wall ourselves off from that in our own minds and on our hearts a little bit too. And so conversations like these your podcast is in such an important way to help us all tap into that shared power. It really is shared power and I see that as as such a gift that you're doing to to create this here.
| 01:33:14.26 audraagen Well I'm going to say something radical that I don't know how many people have said this to you. They probably wouldn't consider this um from this perspective but I do I think your decision to file a lawsuit and go through all that ah that. Difficult horribleness that you went through was really a gift and it was a gift to force you into your purpose and passion. So then you can take all the skills that you've learned as a performer and apply them to changing people's lives. So What do you think about me saying that it was a gift. Do you think I'm crazy.
| 01:34:53.12 Elizabeth Rowe not at all absolutely not I think I I would have said the same myself I I do and I also you know want to say that hard things. Aren't always for a reason and we don't always get sometimes The only thing we get out of a really hard experience is a renewed awareness of our resilience and I think some hard things that's the None thing we get out of it and that's ah | a real thing and I think this hard thing that I went through I certainly had a renewed. Sense of my resilience and also an abundance of other gifts. An abundance of other gifts that came as a result of that and I feel I do feel very privileged and lucky that I have been able to receive those those gifts and that I was able to um withstand that whole experience and come out. The richer for it and I mean that in it in terms of ah my my inner world not in terms of my paycheck Although that's always important too. We do have to say because you know that does matter but it's certainly not the most important thing in life and um | yeah I feel incredibly grateful. | |
| 01:36:35.80 audraagen Yes | you know this? this conversation has been tremendously powerful and I hope that everybody got. The sense out of it that we wanted to communicate which is you know in the middle of Chaos. There's all | there's if you look for it. There's typically something good in there. It might be small | but there's typically something good in there if the audience was like to reach out to you if they have questions. If they're interested in your coaching or any of the the other practices that you serve How could they reach you.
| 01:38:19.32 Elizabeth Rowe Yes | thank you for that. My website is I am http://elizabethabrowe.com so you can go to my website and and contact me through there. You can also find me on social media at imallisabethrow dot. Wouldn't be dot com would it be. It would be I am Elizabeth row on Instagram and Facebook and but my website is I am elizabethabrow dot com you can contact me there and if you do want to reach out to me for those of you who are listening to this podcast please mention that you heard me on this podcast and I will if it's something that is of interest to you I would I will. It would be my delight to make some time on my calendar and to connect with anybody who's listening today.
| 01:39:25.76 audraagen That is extremely generous. Thank you I appreciate that because I know that you're exceptionally busy. So Thank you for that gift of time because and my my thought process with time. That's the only thing that we can't make more of. And when you give it. It truly is a gift.
| 01:40:19.20 Elizabeth Rowe Thank you? Well I you know I I believe so strongly in this community and in what you are creating and in the power of women and in the power of conversation and so when I'm able to amplify that in any way that I can that is my that is part of my purpose.
| 01:40:36.12 audraagen Thank you Thank you for sharing your purpose with us today and thank you for being so willing to be vulnerable ah about your story and your journey and I really appreciate your time and i. I reserved a right to call you back on another time did he catch up to what you're doing um in the future.
| 01:41:35.20 Elizabeth Rowe Love it I will be looking forward to it. | |
| 01:41:25.38 audraagen Excellent and I want to thank all of you for listening this week and we'll see again next time and.